Next equipment purchase disc grinder or 2x72- advice needed

TLR

TLR

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So here is the dilemma. I currently have a craftsman 2x42, a grizzly 12" disc grinder, a grizzly oscillating table sander, a well used delta metal bandsaw that I have in the upright position with a makeshift table and a hand me down drill press.

My knives are improving however I really struggle with the 2x42 in just about everything I do with it. It just runs to fast, is underpowered and doesn't cut clean plunge lines at all. The 12" disc grinder works well for hogging and rough shaping of metal and handle materials but the disk isn't flat enough to use for much else and since it won't reverse I haven't tried it for any other uses. The oscillating sander is very useful but expensive on drums and with as hard as I work it I have to think i'm shortening it's life considerably.

So here is my question. I tend to make, and see myself making in the future, fixed blades which range from neck knives to choppers. I'm an outdoors guy and tend towards the more utilitarian working man's knives. By that, I don't see myself specializing in hand sanded, mirror finish blades. Nothing wrong with them, just not my style.

I have no knife mentors that I can find close to me and so lean upon you in the forum. Which is a better next step for me?

A disc grinder that I could purchase currently which has a vfd and reverse capability. (Looking at the group buy) If I purchase this I plan on using it for my primary bevels and sharpening primarily.
or
Wait, and keep saving my pennies for a KMG (or other) with VFD.

I can drop about a grand right now but that's really it. I simply can't yet afford the extra for something on the level of a KMG.

Thanks for any insight and advice you may have.
 
Having made 150 knives myself with the Craftsman, I'd absolutely advise you to buy a 2x72 of some kind. You could certainly build a NWG for a grand. For not much more, you could get a KMG with a platen and step pullies. It's not truly variable, but it's miles and miles ahead of the Craftsman.
 
Jason, I appreciate the input. Both are great points.
Knowing that money is always going to be tight for me I decided a while back to commit to not buying a KMG or clone unless it has a VFG. If I can only afford one grinder then the difference in price isn't worth buying one that I'd quickly wish was something else.
I've really debated the NWG but since I have little metal machining background I'm not sure that by the time I got done with it I would be to far ahead both in my very limited time to make knives and the inevitable tinkering I'd likely have to do.
 
I have a magnetic disc variable speed grinder, reversible with a 1 degree tapered disc along with others that are flat. I also have two 2X72 belt grinders, one with a platen and one that has a 10" wheel on it most of the time. Go for the 2 X 72 belt grinder with a 1 1/2 or 2 HP motor and go with the pulleys if necessary to make it variable speed. However, if you can do a pretty good rough grinding thing with that 12" then that new 8" might be lots for finishing work. Frank
 
Frank- When it comes to roughing in and finishing the bevels which would you go for, the disc or the 2x72 ?
 
There are knifemakers that have used a disc grinder exclusively. That says a lot about the capabilities. Could be a good, no compromise way to go. Otherwise a KMG, 3ph motor and vfd will likely allow you to remove metal is a serious way, without compromise. If you wanted the flat platen to be horizontal as well, then some engineering can result in a flip able kmg, or look at the Wilmont or Tw90. The last 2 will require that you part with $3000 -$3500.
 
TLR
I used a 2X42 Craftsman for about 3 years, then I got enough saved for a KMG.I set it up with a 1-1/2HP motor and step pullies. I used this setup for 6 more years and bought several other pieces of equipment. Just upgraded to VFD this year. If it were me, I would get the KMG and set it up with pullies. You can always add variable speed later.
The nice thing about the KMG you can upgrade and add on as you can afford it,but you can start with a flat platen, motor and pullies for about a grand.
Just my .02

Stan
 
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Having gone down the road of buying compromising equipment and finally reached my goal of a KMG variable speed. Its a tough decision. Problem is for me anyway is I get something (insert any tool here) and it's cheaper or missing one feature or another that I really wanted in the first place I never feel satisfied with my purchase , And then I go full steam on saving up for what I wanted in the first place and loosing money on the sale of my less than desirable machine there for spending more.

As noted above I know you have better things to spend your money on. So do I . And I know buying what you can afford now gets you in the game sooner. My advice is get something you can afford but can be upgraded with quality parts at a later date. Like your VFD in my opinion is one of the best things that I could have done as far as knife making is concerned.

Good luck
 
TLR said:
Frank- When it comes to roughing in and finishing the bevels which would you go for, the disc or the 2x72 ?
Click to expand...

I'm not Frank but I'm gonna throw in my .02. That statement of " roughing in" and "finishing" can be worlds
apart or both can be done on the same machine. I would definitley prefer the 2x72 for roughing in and the
disc for finishing if all I did were flat grinds. All that being said I'm with Stan a 100% the real core of
knifemaker machines is a quality 2x72 no matter straight speed, variable, or pulleys. I'd hate to have to go
back to my howling single speed square wheel but overall you will make more quality knives with the 2x72.
Edited to add you could without too much trouble set a disc up on the grinder.
Ken.
 
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Thank you guys. This really is the input I was looking for.

KC- when I said rough in and finish I meant could I use the disc for the bevels from start to finish. Your point is appreciated and taken.

What I'm hearing is-
The capability is there to do my bevel work on the disc. That is across the board the piece I'm currently struggling with the most while utilizing my other tools for other areas of knife making.
The 2x72 gives me the most versatility.
This isn't an answer of yes or no but which do I want to choose to go with.
 
In my limited experience I would suggest getting the 2x72. I had a craftsman for about a year then built one of the NWG guys. Right now its single speed with a 1hp motor, a kmg flat platen or the 8inch wheel I swap out from time to time.

It is slower much more so then the craftsman and even being single speed is head and shoulders much easier to use then the craftsman. I recently got a 12 inch grizzly disk grinder which I use here and there but primarily the 2x72.

Another thing is the belts. They last much longer and taking down metal with a 36 grit good belt is amazing compared to on the craftsman. Even with the 1hp motor on my NWG I still have yet to bog it down vice on the craftsman which I was constantly bogging the guy down.
 
No mention of the Pheers grinder? That's what I am saving for. I keep looking at the omg step puppies tho and wondering if I would be better off with it.
 
SBuzek said:
TLR
I used a 2X42 Craftsman for about 3 years, then I got enough saved for a KMG.I set it up with a 1-1/2HP motor and step pullies. I used this setup for 6 more years and bought several other pieces of equipment. Just upgraded to VFD this year. If it were me, I would get the KMG and set it up with pullies. You can always add variable speed later.
The nice thing about the KMG you can upgrade and add on as you can afford it,but you can start with a flat platen, motor and pullies for about a grand.
Just my .02

Stan
Click to expand...

this is my plan.
 
I hate to throw a wrench into all this advice, but---- a good knife design/plan in the hands of an average person with simple equipment will often turn out a better knife than someone with more money, better equipment and poor design or skills. All that extra $ spent on specialized equipment only cuts down on the time to make stuff. Unfortunately many of us have the idea that "I can do that with the right tool/machine".

Case in point#1 --Philip Hartsfield started out using a hand crank grinder to produce Japanese style straight knives years ago. His work was well designed and executed with limited tools. Try to buy one of his pieces now.
Case #2 Traditional Phillippine Balisongs (FHM's) are made in small shops/huts with very simple tools such as hammers, files, vices, hand drills, and primitive grinders. The workers are very skilled at what they do. Try to make one of these knives yourself and enlightenment will be yours.

My background: I have made custom knives and had a mail order knife repair and restoration service, and even worked repairing cutlery for the Puma Company. My primary tools were a knifemakers anvil, hand tools, simple tabletop drill press, 2X42 belt sander (1/2HP) and a bench grinder fitted with buffing wheels. My biggest advance in equipment was the purchase of a slow speed buffing machine (1800 rpm) which did not burn delicate handle materials. I got rid of my Lathe, Milling Machine, Sandblaster, etc for lack of regular use (can't believe I bought all that stuff thinking it would help me make more $).

The key here is get your feet wet on minimum investment----- we can all fall victim to the endless persuit of better and more specialized (expensive) tools to try to replace personal skills.
 
This is all very true.. It all can be done with minimal equipment. I started on a upside down belt sander and a beat anvil and went from there. I took the long road as I most always do most often not on purpose. But if you feel as though you want to enter this field as a hobbyist or more get the best equipment you can afford with an eye towards factory obtainable upgrades. Like say KMG
 
I see your point metlman. I agree to a point. There is no substitute for raw talent, patience, ability to learn. However there is also I think a underlying "right tool for the job". Now can you turn out a great looking blade with some files, sandpaper, and a heat source. Sure, now does having a decent grinder make that job a hell of alot easier, yes. Will it make up for lack of experience or not learning technique, no.

Now here is where someone buying some nice knife making tools is in luck, I have rarely scene a 2x72 grinder stick around on the for sale section for more then a couple of days. If you take care of it and understand that you will lose a little bit of money off the new price you can always get a decent amount of the money back. Pretty much any of the supplies or tools you pick up for this hobby you can take 15% off the price and turn it around pretty quickly.
 
I've read the whole thread and I'm not sure which I'd choose.

The tool argument (for lack of a better term) reminds me of my wood carving knife experience. I started out with junk and very basic knives. Then I decided to invest in a few high quality tools. It's absolutely true in my case the the tools do not make the carver, however, having good tools at my disposal has certainly brought down the level of frustration that I felt before.

It may be true that your knives can be made using primitive means, but if better tools make the job, and in turn, learning, easier, then I say go for it!
 
I have both and it is a no brainer. KMG or other quality 2x72 over a disc grinder every time.
 
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