Next project - Yanagi-ba

[Brock Cutlery]

I have drawn out my pattern and am ready to cut steel. I wanted to ask which steel I should use. This is my first Yanagi, but I plan to take my time and make it to the best of my abilities according to the traditional style.

I have D2, AEB-L, or 440c.
Which if these would you use? Or is there an argument for something better?

 

[Hesparus]

A yanagiba needs to have a very acute edge angle. Of these steels, only AEBL has the edge stability to make this work well.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

D-2 would be a no-go from the start.

AEB-L is a great steel for slicers. It requires re-sharpening a little sooner, but the edge is unexcelled.


440-C would work, but would not be my choice.
Hitachi Blue or White steel would be my first choice in a carbon steel.
I have had good results with CPM-S35VN in stainless. ( but AEB-L will get sharper)

 

[Brock Cutlery]

Thanks Stacy. I went with AEBL. I have it shaped and now am struggling a bit with exactly how to, and how much to taper the blade before grinding.
It's so long it won't all fit on my platen at once, and I'm a bit concerned about getting a straight taper. I don't usually have to do it this way. :|

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

As a rule, a yanagi-ba doesn't taper a lot. Some have no taper at all. With the single bevel dropping at a very low angle, and the taper at the tip caused by the bevel, there is little need for much distal taper. Too much taper, and the tip becomes far too frail.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

As a rule, a yanagi-ba doesn't taper a lot. Some have no taper at all. With the single bevel dropping at a very low angle, and the taper at the tip caused by the bevel, there is little need for much distal taper. Too much taper, and the tip becomes far too frail.

Thanks Stacy. That puts me at ease. So grind further up if I understand you?

 

[elementfe]

Just a suggestion, look at some of the knives on chefknivestogo.com- many of them have detailed reviews including all dimensions and close up photos. It's an education in itself.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

Just a suggestion, look at some of the knives on chefknivestogo.com- many of them have detailed reviews including all dimensions and close up photos. It's an education in itself.

I have done a lot of searching, there and even google images. It's difficult to find a good view of the spine, especially at the tip.
It looks like the grind runs up to about the halfway point of the blade, which covers the entire tip and will thin it.
I'm starting at 3.5mm which is a little thin, so for this one I am thinking I am not going to taper, and see how it comes out.
I think I could use my 14 inch wheel to taper the back, but that might be pretty challenging.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Hold the blade at an angle to the 14" as you hollow grind. What I mean is to hold the blade against the wheel as you would do for a regular hollow grind but to raise the tip and drop the tang. That creates a wider grind channel. Try it on some scrap and you will find the right angle.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

Hold the blade at an angle to the 14" as you hollow grind. What I mean is to hold the blade against the wheel as you would do for a regular hollow grind but to raise the tip and drop the tang. That creates a wider grind channel. Try it on some scrap and you will find the right angle.

I have given that some thought on some other knife designs Stacy. I just don't know that my skills are at that level yet.
If I were to hold it level it would be a round grind. Your suggestion would make it more of an oval shape.
What would be the goal of this wider grind channel? To keep from going too deep?
Would I level it out more at the tip to reduce the channel?

I appreciate the suggestions. I am learning.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

I just finished the straight hollow grind, stopping at 80 grit. I'll clean up after HT.
When I looked after grinding I see I got the AEBL bow. I am hoping the bevel grind will bring it back toward true. :|

 

[Kosa_PL]

For me in My opinion, better is to grind kitchen knife bevels after HT.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I agree, unless the blade is thick, the bevel on a chisel grind slicer is better left for post HT. Since you are using AEB-L, it isn't quite as big a deal as it would be in a hyper-eutectoid carbon steel.

 

[Rhinoknives1]

Brock,
AEB-L also grinds very easily after HT.

I profile, Drill, Initial bevel on the edge at about 30-35 degrees and then off to HT. Are there any Japanese cutlery stores in Simi Valley? I don't mean La Sur Table. Stop by and politely do some market research.

Buy a Bamboo steamer or something else for your kitchen so you don't waste the owner's time.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

Brock,
AEB-L also grinds very easily after HT.

I profile, Drill, Initial bevel on the edge at about 30-35 degrees and then off to HT. Are there any Japanese cutlery stores in Simi Valley? I don't mean La Sur Table. Stop by and politely do some market research.

Buy a Bamboo steamer or something else for your kitchen so you don't waste the owner's time.

I don't know of any stores locally, but I can check that out. It's not a bad idea. I've been using the web as pretty much my only resource.
I have ground AEBL after HT, but I prefer to get some metal off prior. That said, I am learning still so this is another experiment.
There were a lot of issues grinding my Santoku knives too thin, and getting back bacon edge until I stopped taking them so far down pre-HT.

I went ahead and ground the bevel, but still left it 1mm thick at the edge. Most of the bend was gone after that, and I was able to correct the mild bend still in it.
It is straight now, and I'll send it off to HT before more grinding. I'm starting to like AEB-L, even though it seems a bit quirky.

I appreciate your advice Laurence. I've admired your own work more than a few times.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

Hold the blade at an angle to the 14" as you hollow grind. What I mean is to hold the blade against the wheel as you would do for a regular hollow grind but to raise the tip and drop the tang. That creates a wider grind channel. Try it on some scrap and you will find the right angle.

I tried this out today on a Deba profile I cut out. Had a bit of trouble, especially at the ricasso. I am not sure how to get that to come out right?
The rest was very challenging. I still have some way to go on it.
It is difficult to see in the photo, but the hollow is pretty good until I get about 1/4 inch from the edge. Then I am getting a shelf in the grind. Not sure exactly why.

Comments and advice much appreciated.
Thanks

 

[jdm61]

Where did you get AEB-L thick enough to make a yanagi-ba? They supposedly make it in 4.5-5 mm thickness or so (.177-.195) but that stuff is like Bigfoot. Everyone has heard of it, but nobody has sen it.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

Where did you get AEB-L thick enough to make a yanagi-ba? They supposedly make it in 4.5-5 mm thickness or so (.177-.195) but that stuff is like Bigfoot. Everyone has heard of it, but nobody has sen it.

I'm pretty sure it was the Baron. It's been a while, maybe 6 months ago. Although the stuff I used to make the Yanagi was't 4.5. It's 3.5. I wasn't too worried to make it thicker, this being my first attempt at one.
Correction: The 4.5 stuff is 52100. Had to go back through my receipts... Now it's marked. Almost messed that one up. :|

 

[Brock Cutlery]

I am working on more blades for a batch to send to heat treat with the Yanagi so I am trying my hand at this Honesuki. I'm still learning my wheel as you can see. Here is a Honesuki style I am studying, using the 14 inch wheel to hollow the back, and flat grind the single bevel on the other side for a right handed boning / poultry knife. 5.5 inch blade. 4.1mm tapering to 3.1 at the tip. Just under 40mm high at the heel. I left plenty of meat I think at the edge with just under 1mm. Hopefully it won't corkscrew or something at HT.

It will be my first 52100 blade. I am thinking a 62 or 63 Rockwell for hardness?

Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated!

 

[Brock Cutlery]

Finished this one up today. I must have 40 hours in this, and I feel like I could have tinkered with it another day. But there comes a point you have to cut it loose.
This was a real challenge and I learned a lot grinding this and putting it together.

Comments and criticism most welcome. This is my first Yanagi-ba and I've never held one in my hand, so I hope I did the style justice.
Thanks all


Knife details:

AEBL at 62
Handle: Desert Ironwood (one piece) and Macassar Ebony.
Thickness at spine .125 in (3.17 mm)
Blade length 10.47 in (266 mm), no taper
Blade height 1.46 in (37 mm)
Shinogi at .792 (20 mm)
Chisel Grind at @ 10 deg
Urasuki via 14 inch wheel
Handle Length 5.4 in (138 mm)
OAL 16.5 in (419 mm)