Nickel Silver vs. 416ss

T

tmickley

Joined
Apr 4, 2001
Messages
1,803
I tried using some Nickel Silver for bolsters after having always used 416 or 304. Now I know what they mean by stickey and gummy to drill. I'm sure this stuff has some redeeming qualities, but I haven't found any yet.
 
I haven't got to try any 416 yet but have just tried some 304,It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be to use.When I first started using Nickel Silver I hatted it as I was used to brass.Now I have figured out the NS and it isn't to bad,One thing that you can do with the NS that you cant with the stainless is to make the full Metal sheaths,If you can with the 416 I would like to try it,but the 304 I have wont bend worth a darn to form it over the wood form ..
So NS does have it's uses...
Bruce
 
Yep, it does make you think there is metalic bubble gum inside the stuff. Not only is it gummy, it burns up milling cutters if used at brass speeds. My first try cost smoked a $10. end mill.

To give it credit, it does look beautiful when polished!
 
I am a new maker and just finishing up my first blade
I have not had any trouble drilling or working it
when I am drilling it I put some cool tool on the surface
and it works fine,I have not used brass or stainless yet
but I don't see were it is so hard to use????????
maybe I am just lucky
:)
 
What a bunch of whiney babies. Nickel Silver looks so good and adds so much class to a custom knife that I wouldnt worry about a few minor inconveniences in working it. Are we still Friends? :)
 
Heck yea Bruce B..
I would actually rather use the Nickel Silver than the stainless any way..
It isn't that bad once you get it figured out..
Bruce
 
Ok guys....

NS scratches as soon as you touch it, and it tarnishes just like brass. That's why I don't like it. Stainless, 416, doesn't scratch easily and never tarnishes. It's also stronger, used mainly for rifle barrels.

There is nothing particularly difficult about working with NS or brass; it saws and drills easily if you run at the right speed.

I have to say this though. If the knife is going to sit in a case and be admired, it's really hard to beat either NS or brass for looking fancy. Plus it gives you something to do; since you don't ever have to sharpen those cased knives you can spend that time with some metal polish to remove the tarnish... :D
 
NS isnt as bad as brass for turning green in a leather sheath. Brass will start growing green much sooner and look like hell if stored in the sheath. There is some maintainence to NS but people enjoy playing with their investments. I havent stopped using ivory because there is some upkeep. The two just go together naturally.
 
Buce B., I know that. I just couldn't let you and Bruce E. get through those two anti-stainless posts completely unscathed. Just having some fun... :D
 
I agree with Jerry about NS for collocters I am going to work with the stainless sometime.How easy is it to pean and how hard is to bring up to a high shine on bolsters and guards?:)
 
You have to sand stainless down to a fine grit before polishing, but it's not difficult. It peans harder, but I think that gives you a little better control and the missed hits are less damaging. You do have to bang on it to keep the pins from winking at you later though. I use a 3# or 4# hammer, and NOTHING is going to make those pins let go!
 
Stainless works fine but Nickel silver is traditional on the Bowies now and on the old classics.Pluss there is just something allot more classy when you say "Nickel Silver" as oposed to saying "Stainless":p :D :D :D
Sorry Jerry I just couldn't resist.
Bruce
 
Before you read and get up in arms, remember, this is a general statement, not a hard fast rule, just an observation.

Stainless is generally used on stock removed blades.
Nickel Silver (aka german silver) is usually the choice of makers for forged blades and some stock removed blades as well but you will rarely see stainless hardware on a forged blade. Why??? Some makers prefer the traditional nickel silver and sometimes brass.

My point...look at the two camps in the posts above. At one time I was used nothing but 303 stainless. My leanings now are towards nickel silver. Go figure!

Now! Who was responsible for supplying all that hideous low percentage nickel silver about a year or so ago? Not only was it the wrong "color" but you couldn't fin any matching pins!

C Wilkins
 
C L, I dont know what that stuff was but it was kinda yellow colored and cracked real easy if you put pressure on it. I havent bought any since but now need some more. I hope the new NS is really NS.

Jerry, I saw your knives at the blade show. They look beautiful even with that stainless stuff.
 
I think I still have a small piece or two of some of that yellowish gold colored NS left,I hated it..
I was going to order my next batch from the jeweler supply catalog,Theirs ahould be the good stuff,They charge more for it I know that..
I have been using a little of that 304 stainless here lately only because my NS is running low and this came at the right time and price:D ..
The stainless doesn't look bad at all,Don't try to make ferrules or sheaths out of it:eek: It doesn't want to bend and form worth a darn:rolleyes: if you know what I mean...I like Brass myse;f but the collecters don't so I have to stay away from it..
Bruce
 
Good thread. I've got a tip and observation to share, and I also have a question for you guys to ponder on about NS.

TIP:
The trick to drilling NS is to take it easy and use plenty of Cool Tool, Tap Magic, or whatever. Let the bit do the work. Don't try to hog it, or it will overheat and/or bind the bit. By taking it slow and keeping it cool, you'll find you actually get through faster than trying to rush it.

It's easy to tell when you're at the right speed and have the right amount of pressure. Instead of a pulling up chips and chunks, you'll see a nice long spiral of the NS working it's way up out of the hole. It even sounds and feels different when you get it right. I can't explain it -- it just sounds and feels smooth.

I start the hole and back off, then give it a shot of Tap Magic. Then it's back in the hole until that little spiral of NS starts working it's way out and around the bit. Back it out, clean the bit lightly with a small wire brush, add more Tap Magic, and back in again.


OBSERVATION:
With respect to the oxidation, I haven't had a problem with NS turning, though I don't know why. I keep hearing that it will turn like brass. I've got a small hunter with a NS guard and pins stashed away that I made at the bladesmithing school circa 1996. I looked at it this weekend and it hasn't turned.

With respect to the milling of NS, I haven't had any trouble so far. My wife bought me a mini-mill for Christmas last year. The end mills I got from Uncle Al's cut through the stuff like butter at a fairly high speed. Neither the NS or the end mills get hot. I'm a bit perplexed about it, but I "ain't" complaining.


QUESTION:
One thing I agree with hole-heartedly is that the stuff scratches too darned easily. All of us who work with NS know that if it's too hard, you can anneal it by heating it up and quenching in water, which I do all the time. What I'm wondering is if anyone knows how to do the reverse. That is, purposely harden it up a bit to make it more scratch resistant. I don't mean harden in the same sense as a ferrous metal like steel, I just mean make it a little more scratch resistant.
 
This is an interesting thread.

I prefer 416 because of everything said, it won't stain and it's pretty darn scratch-resistant. I'm sure some of you remember a post I made not long ago about problems with nickel silver. I've decided I was drilling too fast.

It's pretty easy to work with and it's pretty stuff...but those darn scratches. I agree with Terry, I made my dad a hunter with a nickel silver guard 5 years ago and it's not discolored at all (and it gets USED).

Some argue that nickel silver takes a higher polish, but I think 416 is pretty easy to mirror polish if desired. But I prefer a satin finish on everything anyway as it's a little more tedious work (that shows in the end).

Craig is right about general forging vs. stock removal makers and their choice in material (just like natural vs. synthetic handles)...but since I saw a Flourney fighter with 1084 blade and 416 guard I have no problem sticking with stainless :D

Good thread...

Nick
 
Terry
Instead of tap magic I use just plain WD40 for cutting fluid when working NS. Works great and cheap.
jf
 
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