Niobium-Alloyed Knife Steels Explained - S110V, S35VN, Niolox, and More

Excellent article. thanks.

Your hinted R&D steel spec and test# look promising. Fun to wild guess its spec: spray form, 0.8%C, 13%Cr, 2%Nb, 0.5%V, 1.5%W...

When avail :thumbsup:, I would like to acquire some.
 
bluntcut said:
Excellent article. thanks.

Your hinted R&D steel spec and test# look promising. Fun to wild guess its spec: spray form, 0.8%C, 13%Cr, 2%Nb, 0.5%V, 1.5%W...

When avail :thumbsup:, I would like to acquire some.
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You're at least the 3rd or 4th person to guess the composition. It's been very entertaining. I didn't ask any of them.
 
One of the things I really like about these articles is that they expose me to concepts I hadn’t thought about before. I never really thought much about niobium, but it looks like a great way to improve wear resistance while minimizing the negative impact on toughness.
 
Willie71 said:
One of the things I really like about these articles is that they expose me to concepts I hadn’t thought about before. I never really thought much about niobium, but it looks like a great way to improve wear resistance while minimizing the negative impact on toughness.
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Always more to learn for sure.
 
Larrin, is the primary issue with niobium one of cost?
 
jdm61 said:
Larrin, is the primary issue with niobium one of cost?
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No it’s cheaper than vanadium. Though in some patents they say you have to use more niobium than vanadium because of its greater atomic weight. But in practice it’s not really true.
 
Enjoyed this article, too, Larrin. Thanks for putting it together. I would also be extremely interested in such a steel. Composition looks terrific.
 
I use niolox a lot. I'd like to see your tests again with full HT including sub zero.
A very stubbern steel to work with but it takes a fine edge, stays sharp a long time and doesn't stain.
Interesting to read what the niobium does
 
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Hengelo_77 said:
I use niolox a lot. I'd like to see your tests again with full HT including sub zero.
A very stubbern steel to work with but it takes a fine edge, stays sharp a long time and doesn't stain.
Interesting to read what the niobium does
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Cryo was used with the Niolox heat treatment. You should make some toughness samples and send them to me.
 
If I remember right you wrote in an early post that there were sampels HT-ed without cryo.
Anyhow what do your toughness samples look like?
 
Hengelo_77 said:
If I remember right you wrote in an early post that there were sampels HT-ed without cryo.
Anyhow what do your toughness samples look like?
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I prefer that all of the samples are given a cryo treatment, and the majority of them have been except for cases where we have compared cryo with no cryo. The specifications for the toughness samples are on this page: https://knifesteelnerds.com/how-you-can-help/
 
Larrin said:
I prefer that all of the samples are given a cryo treatment, and the majority of them have been except for cases where we have compared cryo with no cryo. The specifications for the toughness samples are on this page: https://knifesteelnerds.com/how-you-can-help/
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Have you compared a traditional cryo as in dipping it into ln2 vs cryo that Peter's does by using a custom enclosure that doesn't have contact with Ln2 itself but the gas iirc vs cryo temp change from 0 to 300 in 5 min intervals
Mentioned here
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/any-questionson-cryogenics.218762/#post-18720941
And here
https://www.jayfisher.com/Heat_Trea...fe_Blade_Steels.htm#Cold_Very_Cold_Cryogenics
 
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2.5 x 10 x 55 mm unnotched samples with the 55 mm length along the rolling direction (unless comparing orientations)

Sides of samples must be parallel and dimensions must be 10 ± 0.075 mm

Thickness must be 2.5 ± 0.025 mm

Length is less critical, 55 ± 1 mm

Each side should be finished to at least 70 grit (2 micron Ra)


Sorry those dimentions are to exact for me. Can't deliver that.
 
Mo2 said:
Have you compared a traditional cryo as in dipping it into ln2 vs cryo that Peter's does by using a custom enclosure that doesn't have contact with Ln2 itself but the gas iirc vs cryo temp change from 0 to 300 in 5 min intervals
Mentioned here
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/any-questionson-cryogenics.218762/#post-18720941
And here
https://www.jayfisher.com/Heat_Trea...fe_Blade_Steels.htm#Cold_Very_Cold_Cryogenics
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Larrin has a HUGE 3 part article on Cryo at knifesteelnerds.com go check that out.

My experience is you just put the quenched blade in the liquid nitrogen when it comes up to room temperature after quenching.
Slow cooling I feel isn't relavent to knives but for complex parts and shapes

If the steel is of sufficient quality and the steps before Austenizing, the Austenizing itself and the quenching are done properly and with good control there is no worry.
 
DeadboxHero said:
Larrin has a HUGE 3 part article on Cryo at knifesteelnerds.com go check that out.

My experience is you just put the quenched blade in the liquid nitrogen when it comes up to room temperature after quenching.
Slow cooling I feel isn't relavent to knives but for complex parts and shapes

If the steel is of sufficient quality and the steps before Austenizing, the Austenizing itself and the quenching are done properly and with good control there is no worry.
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Yea but I'd like to see the difference in real world data between them. It would seem the 3rd way as linked would provide benefits but also be out of the realm for diy heat treating for most makers... But if the benefits are better then there is a better product overall. And his cryo article didn't mention this method.
 
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