Niobium-Alloyed Knife Steels Explained - S110V, S35VN, Niolox, and More

Mo2 said:
Yea but I'd like to see the difference in real world data between them. It would seem the 3rd way as linked would provide benefits but also be out of the realm for diy heat treating for most makers... But if the benefits are better then there is a better product overall. And his cryo article didn't mention this method.
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There are more important factors to worry about. If you read the cryo article again you'll see it's a red herring to seek the differences you're looking for due to the underlying principal of how it works and what is trying to be achieved with the cryogenics.

There are much bigger worries that are much more important. It is difficult to discuss this with people that don't have any experience with HT to weed out irrelevant information and focus on pertinent information. Everything makes sense until you are doing it and have to put it into practice, so I won't really be able to answer your questions because it's like describing how the rules of baseball work and how to play without ever seeing or doing it.
 
DeadboxHero said:
There are more important factors to worry about. If you read the cryo article again you'll see it's a red herring to seek the differences you're looking for due to the underlying principal of how it works and what is trying to be achieved with the cryogenics.

There are much bigger worries that are much more important. It is difficult to discuss this with people that don't have any experience with HT to weed out irrelevant information and focus on pertinent information. Everything makes sense until you are doing it and have to put it into practice, so I won't really be able to answer your questions because it's like describing how the rules of baseball work and how to play without ever seeing or doing it.
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Ive used cryo for car parts. But not knives, I can tell the difference in wear rates, specifically gears and brakes on a race track.

The fact of the mater is the links I provided suggest benefits over standard cryo process. The one article provides some data. But I'd like to confirm this. Since it seems to be a lost art in today's world of knives.
 
Hengelo_77 said:
2.5 x 10 x 55 mm unnotched samples with the 55 mm length along the rolling direction (unless comparing orientations)

Sides of samples must be parallel and dimensions must be 10 ± 0.075 mm

Thickness must be 2.5 ± 0.025 mm

Length is less critical, 55 ± 1 mm

Each side should be finished to at least 70 grit (2 micron Ra)


Sorry those dimentions are to exact for me. Can't deliver that.
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We have a few volunteer machinists if you want to make oversized samples and send to one of them.
 
I haven’t found any studies that show an improvement from a slower cooling rate for cryo. Slower cooling rate means less chance of warping/cracking but more stabilization of austenite.
 
How come I don't see people add Titanium to steel? As the article states that it would be synergistic with the Niobium.
 
Larrin said:
Yes. Cut them out oversized, heat treat them, and send to one of the machining volunteers.
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I don't work fast but next time I send out blades for HT I'll send a 3mm x 10mm+ x 200mm strip of Niolox to Jürgen Schanz. He is the second person selling Niolox (he calls it SB1) and does HT on it as well.
I'll contact you when I have it back
 
Let's say you are forging CruForgeV at 2000+ degrees F, then all the vanadium would have all dissolved, no? Then at this point, it would no longer be effective in pinning grain size, no?
 
cotdt said:
Let's say you are forging CruForgeV at 2000+ degrees F, then all the vanadium would have all dissolved, no? Then at this point, it would no longer be effective in pinning grain size, no?
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It has to be nearly melting temperature to dissolve vandium carbides, some complex carbides containing vandium would probably dissolve above 2000’ though.

Hoss
 
JMatPro says 2100°F for dissolution of VC in CruForgeV. The real temperature will be somewhat higher than that.
 
Larrin said:
JMatPro says 2100°F for dissolution of VC in CruForgeV. The real temperature will be somewhat higher than that.
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So if I forge-weld CruForgeV onto something by going over this temperature, then normalize and heat treat it, it won't have much in terms of vanadium carbides anymore? So the extra wear resistance and grain pinning effect is gone?
 
Hengelo_77 said:
2.5 x 10 x 55 mm unnotched samples with the 55 mm length along the rolling direction (unless comparing orientations)

Sides of samples must be parallel and dimensions must be 10 ± 0.075 mm

Thickness must be 2.5 ± 0.025 mm

Length is less critical, 55 ± 1 mm

Each side should be finished to at least 70 grit (2 micron Ra)


Sorry those dimentions are to exact for me. Can't deliver that.
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Cut them close, heat treat them, and send them to me. I will happily finish grind them to size and forward them to Larrin for testing.
 
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