Nitrogen in INFI

tinfoil hat timmy said:
So the ergos have nitrogen I'm guessing? Nice. .
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Without a doubt. The exact same steel used in ergos as the original run, 1% Cobalt which everything after did not have. But I still think even the current line must have Nitrogen and it is very low so it is hard to detect.
 
Thomas Linton said:
While appreciating your informed insight, someone who knows for sure could post.
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Well Thomas, if you have satin infi you can go do the test yourself. I did the test in 2013 and it did not have it. That is fact. The testing place said it should have detected it but the number may be small enough to go under the deviation. So to answer your question factually, no there is no tested nitrogen in modern INFI.
 
Wish I still worked for a university and I could have got it tested :( plus the one I have on rider is a coated one, but then I guess that would be a good excuse to order a new satin finished one to have tested :) not sure that would work with the wife though :p
 
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The ingredients of the recipe are important, true...

and they have been "discovered" a couple of times, reportedly...

but the real secret of INFI is in how it's cooked & cooled :cool:

that exact protocol just isn't traceable via technology-- yet :rolleyes:
 
PeteyTwoPointOne said:
The ingredients of the recipe are important, true...

and they have been "discovered" a couple of times, reportedly...

but the real secret of INFI is in how it's cooked & cooled :cool:

that exact protocol just isn't traceable via technology-- yet :rolleyes:
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So many people that are not into INFI will tell you that HT has no secrets and thus INFI has no secrets. I beg to differ. The steel recipe is important but the HT process is more so.

There are other things about nitrogen that are interesting and why it may no longer be used in INFI, but no one really knows if Nitrogen is in INFI or not no point in a factless discussion.
 
Cobalt said:
So many people that are not into INFI will tell you that HT has no secrets and thus INFI has no secrets. I beg to differ. The steel recipe is important but the HT process is more so.

There are other things about nitrogen that are interesting and why it may no longer be used in INFI, but no one really knows if Nitrogen is in INFI or not no point in a factless discussion.
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EXACTLY THIS!

The elemental composition of INFI is probably pretty pedestrian, and very likely identical to other known/manufactured tool steels.

Now the HT / quenching protocol..."aye, now there's the thing to catch the conscience of the king!"
 
Metals are strange. It'd amazing what can become of them with mere minutes difference in this or that step of a heat treat.
 
Is it just possible, just maybe, that people write about stuff on the internet of which they haven't a clue? No! Everything on the internet has to be the truth, right? If the nitrogen was removed from INFI, wouldn't it now be called IFI?
 
UffDa said:
Is it just possible, just maybe, that people write about stuff on the internet of which they haven't a clue? No! Everything on the internet has to be the truth, right? If the nitrogen was removed from INFI, wouldn't it now be called IFI?
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Your presumption sounds very IFI to me;)
 
Cobalt said:
Your presumption sounds very IFI to me;)
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Ohhhhhhhhh burrrrrnnnnnn.... Just kidding

Wouldn't it cover all bases to say that whatever Jerry calls INFI is INFI. It doesn't really matter if it's made of duck fat and egg whites, if I can spilt a chord or 2 of wood with my ASHBM and then shave hair off of my arm, I'm happy. Whether it has this or that shouldn't matter, Jerry makes changes for the good so if it's different it's better. The older stuff had higher rc which made it a slight bit better at specific jobs but I've never been disappointed by INFI and don't ever expect to either.

Long live JERRY
 
Asked before?

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/133109-What-is-INFI-w-o-nitrogen?highlight=infi


And some more fun info, that anyone can find



Jerry Busse Jerry Busse is offline
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INFI Contest! Win a free Busse Mean Street!
ET. . . .Go home!!!!! Just kidding. I just finished reading a thread on the Shop Talk forum titled “What is INFI?” A forum member named E T had an analysis performed on an INFI blade and revealed the majority of INFI’s analysis to the world. Good Work!!! Call us at the shop (419) 923-6471 and I'll send you a free Busse Combat Hat.

E T’s analysis has revealed the following about INFI.

V .36
Cr 8.25
Fe 87.79
Co .95
Ni .74
MO 1.3


This analysis confirms what we have stated all along and that is that INFI is not simply a re-named, already existent steel. It is a steel that we developed and have manufactured exclusively for us by a small mill. We were trying to keep INFI’s analysis proprietary and luckily the analysis is only a small part of what constitutes INFI. The specific manufacturing process is protected, as is our process of Transversion Wave tempering.

I’d like to thank Mike Turber for keeping the analysis a secret for the past couple of years, eventhough, he was bribed constantly to reveal the secret. Mike’s reputation as a gentleman and man of honor speaks for itself. Tim Zowada, who was recently given the specific elemental analysis, has performed extensive tests and developed forging data for INFI. I don’t know how many of you are familiar with Tim but he is the most intense metallurgical freak on the planet. He makes the finest forged blades on earth and writes regularly for Knives Illustrated. If you enter into a conversation on metallurgy with Tim be sure to pack a lunch and a pair of sunglasses. This way you won’t get hungry and the sunglasses will help hide the confused look on your face. Tim has, likewise, kept quiet on INFI’s analysis and for that I am thankful.

Now, back to E T’s analysis. I confirm that your findings are correct. Of course there are some elements missing from your analysis such as carbon and a rather unique ingredient called ________________? Well, we’d might as well make this fun. . . Let’s see. . .what is the rather unique missing ingredient????? If you are the first person to name it you will receive a free Busse Mean Street ($217.00 value). I am allowing only one guess per forum member. Obviously, Mike, Tim, and E T are out of the running. This contest ends on Tuesday, 8/24/99 at 11:00 pm EST. I will announce the winner at that time. Good luck!

Jerry Busse
President
Busse Combat Knife Co.
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Cliff Stamp Cliff Stamp is offline
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There is no information on its content besides the odd comment like "modified INFI doesn't have cobalt" which implies that INFI does (or it could have been reduced Cobalt?).

Performance reviews have all been positive to date indicating high edge holding and impact toughness and all around durability. And to top it off, apparently INFI also does not have a great tendancy to rust.

-Cliff
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12-07-1999, 03:19 PM #38 E T E T is offline
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In another post, Mr. Busse agreed that my analysis was correct, with the addition of .11% nitrogen and .5% carbon, which the radioactive isotope spectral analysis can't detect. So, the complete formula is:

V .36%
Cr 8.25%
Fe 87.79%
Co .95%
Ni .74%
Mo 1.3%
C .5%
N .11%

These numbers should not be assumed to be exactly right, the cobalt at .95% is probably supposed to be 1.0%, but they should be close.
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08-25-1999, 01:00 AM #1 Jerry Busse Jerry Busse is offline
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INFI Contest Winners!
Congratulations to the first 4 posters to name the rather unique ingredient, NITROGEN, in a single guess! The winners are Rob Simonich, Bagman, Bob Irons, and Ugly Jim! Great work boys! We’ll be contacting you by e-mail within the next week.

We at Busse Combat have had a great time with this and want to thank all of the forum members who participated. Sorry I wasn’t able to post immediately at 11:00 p.m. but I had lots of answers to wade through.

A little bit more about INFI.
Carbon makes up approximately .50 with Nitrogen hitting the .11 mark. The nitrogen combines with some of the other elements and enables INFI to deliver enormous levels of toughness and excellent wear resistance at high hardness. The relative ease of re-sharpening has, likewise, become one of its hallmarks.

Thanks again,

Jerry Busse
President
Busse Combat Knife Co.
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08-25-1999, 01:16 AM #5 Jerry Busse Jerry Busse is offline
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Fuzzynuts,

I started doing shallow cryo. with dry ice and acetone as an accelerator, in 1984. We have used deep cryogenics for the past several years. We cryo our blades in a dry, controlled atmosphere. This allows us to take them down to temp. at a very slow rate (10 hours) and hold them down there for a long period of time (48 hours) and then bring them back up slowly (10 hours). They are then normalized with a low temp. oven temper. All in all we do a little over 80 hours of heat treating and tempering. The dry atmosphere with long cycle times has really paid off for us in the performance department.

[This message has been edited by Jerry Busse (edited 25 August 1999).]
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I wonder if INFI starts with Nitrogen but somehow loses/lowers the content of it during the heat treat as the process maybe longer or more complicated than at the beginning? I have no idea if that is even possible from a scientific standpoint, just an idea that came to mind sitting here reading this while eating a burger. :confused:
 
Several months ago, I was in a discussion with a custom knifemaker in the southeast, discussing large knives, choppers, etc... I have many of his knives and highly respect what he does with various steels for true hard core user knives. This knifemaker mentioned infi, I even suggested the reputation was bs! He argued it was true and infi was phenomenal in performance. The next day, I bought a Busse in infi. WOW. WOW. WOW. Infi is freakin' amazing stuff! Jerry has a secret and I completely respect that! Just give me MORE INFI!
 
So far as retain shaving edge in soft clean materials, wood, new hemp or sisal rope (one inch diameter) with the new standard from the Factory.

On an average, based on the old tests I would expect roughly half the number of push cuts compared to the Asymmetrical Factory edge.

Making the test doable at home would seem to require four knives, two each with matching edges.

Two knives from the Early production and two current production.

Plus 400 feet of new clean rope, a jig to set the knives in, a few pairs of gloves and a fair bit of time.

Match one old and one new for each type of edge and then get down to work.

Make the effort to attempt to match general blade thickness, depth of belly and secondary bevel in degree.

Might as well do it all on Camera and with witnesses.

As to different batches of INFI being different in composition, that is really Jerry's story to tell.
 
You guys are funny. It is obvious that INFI has 50% I, 25% N and 25% F. So it does have 25% N. Hope this helps :D
 
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