No BS, whats got a stronger lock, Axis, or REKAT Carnivore?

F

frank aka rage

Joined
Jan 16, 2000
Messages
37
Hello people, what would you say has a stronger lock, and which lock will last the longest. I never held a REKAT, but im looking to get two Carnivores, is the knife overall stronger then the Axis Lock-710. I dont care about grittyness, i just care about how strong the lock up is.
 
From what I have heard the Axis can sometimes fail you like get un done and close also Someone posted earlier that the lock completely wore down all the way and had to send it in for repairs....
 
Mickey, what are you, intoxicated? You know bloody well the axis lock bar would take tens of thousands of openings and closings to completely wear down...so who is this "somebody that posted earlier"?

S'all good man, just wondering where you're coming from
smile.gif
.

In regard to frank/rage's question:

The rolling lock is stronger than the axis lock. You will, however, not be able to defeat either lock unless you are planning on using the knives as pitons for rock climbing.

In that light, I can't see why you wouldn't care about grittyness. I have heard that the rolling lock on the carnavores can be gritty. I have never heard of an axis lock with a gritty action. I own a 710sbt and it is as smooth as butta' baby
wink.gif
, and I have opened and closed it at least 750 times in the 4-5 months that I have owned it. The action is still smooth, and the lock-up is as tight as ever, no BS.

But hey, if all you want is strength, tests show that the rolling lock can support more weight than the axis lock can.



------------------
Yeah! Drop the chalupa...
 
i don't know much bout this rolling lock from REKAT, but, i do know that i love my axis lock. the axis can hold up to 200 lbs. of reverse pressure bfore it fails. i don't know bout the REKAT. i'm stickin true to my benchmade knives. i love them....and my axis lock is the best one.

pl
 
Common Mickey!

"Hmm, Sir, please step out of the car, lift one foot and spell 'Missisipi'"
biggrin.gif


Axis locks haven't been around enough time to wear any one of them. And the action of axis lock is definitely smooth. I flick mine constantly when I have a problem to solve or so.

I've heard too that rolling rocks are stronger but as Stompy said, with this "order" of strength, why would anyone care.

Kris


[This message has been edited by jeegeet (edited 02-07-2000).]
 
Damn! It's a second time today...
Wrong button, sorry.

K.


[This message has been edited by jeegeet (edited 02-07-2000).]
 
How many of you have acutally tested the lock strength of either lock? Are you just expressing opnon?

sal
 
What does "200 lbs of reverse pressure" mean? 200 lbs is a force not a pressure, and the relevant quantity would be torque in any case which is what Spyderco usually quotes.

The only direct comparison I have seen that failed one of the locks was by Steve Harvey. He simply banged on both blades with a stick and failed the REKAT and not the Axis.

-Cliff
 
I' ll agree that both locking mechanisms would take quite a few openings before they will "wear out". I also believe that both mechanisms are self "wearing". They will adjust by themselves as parts start to lose tolerances. I' m curious if there is a way to tell if this is happening. Perhaps the positions of the release buttons/ tabs is indicative??

Sal, weren' t there tests done at the Golden facilities that gave readouts as to the amount of negative loads each can sustain prior to lock failure?

Cliff, isn' t the force of sudden impact such as hitting with a stick differ from a load that progressively increases?

L8r,
Nakano
 
Maybe I'm out of line here, I've examined
both locks and they are extremly strong for
what a knife was intended for even in serious
conditions. A person would be short of tooth
and long of beard before either wore out enough to be replaced. The axis actually
would wear forward into the slot.
I've made an axis lock for a hunting folder
I want to use and as I was filing the back
of the blade to fit and try the lock to go
up the ramp I got to a point where the sliding pin was only half on the lip of the
ramp and the blade wouldn't close. I spine
wacked it on the bench and it wouldn't fail
needless to say I was even more impressed
with the lock. My version was a little more
heavy duty than the comercial version. someone would have to really get out of hand
I feel to make either lock fail. Both are
great in my opinion or onion and more than relialble.

------------------
http://www.imt.net/~goshawk
Don't walk in tradition just because it feels good!!!!!
Romans 10:9,10
Hebrews 4:12-16
Psalm 91

 
I have personally tested the following 2 knives. The BM 710 and a REKAT Pioneer I.
This isn't scientific but here it is.
I took a 6" piece of pipe and taped (using electrical tape) the knife in the open position to the end of the pipe so that I could hold the other end of the pipe without any of my body parts in the way. I then swung the pipe whacking the spine of the blade against my workbench. I started with just a tap and ended up swiging harder than when I used to work construction framing houses. Neither knife failed.
That's it. I was impressed with both knives.
I did also cover both knives in mud once and found that the rolling lock did sometimes not engage due to the mud. The axis always engaged and held strong.
Walter
 
They're both good locks. The Sifu has something no BM has ever possessed to date: another inch and a half of blade length.

Jim
 
Nakano, yes, sudden impacts and slow progressive loads are very different stresses. Joe Talmadge has commented on this in regard to failing liner locks.

To get the actual answer in regard to slow loading, you just need the specifics of the Benchmade lock since REKAT has already described theirs. This question has been asked on the Benchmade forum and ignored by the Support team last time I checked, which was awhile ago.

Few people are willing to state specifics like REKAT has done and Spyderco to some extent. Chris Reeve also avoided the question when I asked him (in the forum) stating the exact specifics were not important to him. Of course one of the reasons for REKAT being so public about it is that they are quite possibly the strongest lock in this area.

-Cliff
 
As to the "grittiness" question regarding REKATs, I've handled quite a few Carnivores and the grittiness was never in the Rolling Lock mechanism, but in the blade pivot. I understand that REKAT is taking QC steps to alleviate this problem.
 
Plain and simple, if someone tells you one of these locks is stronger than the other (including the people who have made such claims above), and they have *not* tested the locks head-to-head or cited data from such a test, don't believe them. REKAT has been claiming they have the strongest lock, and many people have been taking them at face value. I have knives with both lock, neither is obviously stronger than the other to me, I require head-to-head data or I simply have no basis on which to form a belief.

My feeling in general is that both locks are astoundingly strong. So strong, that other factors besides lock strength are what will help me make a decision about buying a particular folder. Other factors about the lock itself that might help me decide, are the smoothness and overall refinement of every axis lock mechanism I've handled, versus the gritty unrefined action of all rolling locks mechanisms I've handled (I think this is just a matter of production values, and REKAT should be improving). On top of lock factors are overall folder factors, such as blade shape, production values, ergonomics, etc.

Joe

 
My Opinion!
I own a BM 710 and a REKAT Pocket Hobbit. The BM 710 has a smooth "action" and locks up solidly. No complaints.
The Pocket Hobbit on the other hand has a sloppy lockup, gritty opening and the blade rubs along the liner upon opening. I have e-mailed REKAT about it about a month and a half ago and have received no reply.
Conclusion - Will not buy REKAT again but am quite happy with the axis lock.

------------------
Kevin Miller
My Personal Interests Page
kevinandtrish@sympatico.ca
Look to the Lord and His strength, seek His face always.
 
The Rolling lock that released during the stick test was one of the old style with the release lever that traveled in the same plane as the blade. I think the impact of the stick may have been enough to snap the release lever open. I haven't had any releases with the side-button Rolling locks.

The most impressive thing I've seen a folder survive are the full power reverse snap cuts I've done with my Sifu. The lock is stout.

Same with the Axis lock.

The key thing with folders is lock reliability. If you excede the design of the lock and break it, that's just misapplication. If the lock releases inadvertently when you had no reason to expect it, that's bad. Both locks are very reliable.
 
Nakano,

I' ll agree that both locking mechanisms would take quite a few openings before they will "wear out". I also believe that both mechanisms are self "wearing". They will adjust by themselves as parts start to lose tolerances.
Click to expand...

A lot of locks wear in before the wear out. This includes liner locks and to an extent, lockbacks. After a certain period, the lock wears out and then there is blade play.

Cliff,

Chris Reeve also avoided the question when I asked him (in the forum) stating the exact specifics were not important to him.
Click to expand...

The sebenza did pretty well during spyderco's lock tests. The Military did better. However, Chris has never had a sebenza that was returned because the lock was defeated because it was not strong enough (liner bending). This is probably why the extra specifics were not important to him. If you have not had one knife fail then it doesnt seem to be much of an issue.

Mickey77,

From what I have heard the Axis can sometimes fail you like get un done and close also Someone posted earlier that the lock completely wore down all the way and had to send it in for repairs....
Click to expand...

Can you back any of this up? If you cannot please do not make such claims. One of bladeforums' rules is that you must be able to back up your claims.

------------------
Johnny
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