No foreign knives for the [Swiss] army

supratentorial

supratentorial

Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
8,210
Swiss soldiers will continue to pack knives made in Switzerland, after the defence ministry decided not to have them produced them abroad.

The NZZ am Sonntag and Sonntag newspapers revealed on Sunday that Victorinox in canton Schwyz would supply 65,000 silver knives, worth around SFr1.2 million ($1.1 million).

The defence ministry's procurement agency caused an uproar when it announced that it was calling for tenders from abroad last summer, claiming that under World Trade Organization (WTO) rules it had no choice given the size of the contract.

According to Sonntag, the army chose though to demand a blade that could be locked into position, effectively making it a weapon and no longer subject to WTO standards.

While foreign offers were still considered, the procurement services allegedly decided though that Swiss quality standards were still the best for the army.
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http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news_digest/No_foreign_knives_for_the_army.html?siteSect=104&sid=8723952&cKey=1202644423000&ty=nd

The article says "Victorinox in canton Schwyz would supply 65,000 silver knives". Does that mean silver alox? The Victorinox Soldier (and Wenger Standard Issue) lack a locking blade. The article says that "the army chose though to demand a blade that could be locked into position". I wonder if they'll be using a version of the one-hand Trekker instead of the Soldier knife.
 
Sounds interesting, that's for sure.

It seems that the author is insinuating that the requirements were made to favor domestic production.
According to Sonntag, the army chose though to demand a blade that could be locked into position, effectively making it a weapon and no longer subject to WTO standards.
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I do not believe this article to be very accurate. It is dated Feb. 10, and some things happened since then.

As Roger (SwissBianco) reported in his forum, on Feb. 27, Swiss Army has finally issued the information about the military knife trials. You can see the scans of the letter he received in his Photobucket album: http://s253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/swissbianco/?action=view&current=saktrialmail.jpg

Basically, the letter sets out the timetable for the trials and requirements for the submissions. The requirements and timelines do seem to be set in such a way that anybody but the incumbent (Victorinox/Wenger) would be at a serious disadvantage, if not the complete disqualification. Ultimately, with the exception of a locking can opener(?!?), the specs seem to be met by the current GAK (OHT variant). Swapping can and bottle opener would basically be enough for Vic to win the contract.

Alexei
 
supratentorial said:
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news_digest/No_foreign_knives_for_the_army.html?siteSect=104&sid=8723952&cKey=1202644423000&ty=nd

The article says "Victorinox in canton Schwyz would supply 65,000 silver knives". Does that mean silver alox? The Victorinox Soldier (and Wenger Standard Issue) lack a locking blade. The article says that "the army chose though to demand a blade that could be locked into position". I wonder if they'll be using a version of the one-hand Trekker instead of the Soldier knife.
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Hurray! Nice to know there's still some order to the universe! One thing though, I always liked the alox soldier, better than the OHT.
 
It's likely this was one of those sweetheart deals for Vic/Wegner from the start, the bidding process being just a formality. It's a pity. I'd like to see more competition in the knife world.
 
Ultraman said:
Hurray! Nice to know there's still some order to the universe! One thing though, I always liked the alox soldier, better than the OHT.
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Me too!

ufox9al said:
I thought so too, and that would a) make sense; and b) match the existing GAK spec 100%, but Roger confirmed his translation as can opener. Go figure...
Alexei
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I trust Roger's translation but I wonder if an error was made by the clerk (?) who wrote the document.
 
I trust Roger's translation but I wonder if an error was made by the clerk (?) who wrote the document.
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I wonder if the slight change from the existing Vic configuration could be a way to add a level of transparency- to make it look as though the contract is not geared towards being awarded to Vic.
 
Ultraman said:
Hurray! Nice to know there's still some order to the universe! One thing though, I always liked the alox soldier, better than the OHT.
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supratentorial said:
Me too!
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Could you put into words why it is you gentlemen prefer the Soldier over the OHT? This is of interest to me because lately I have been alternating both (Pioneer, actually, but close enough) for EDC as a "review" project. At this point, I would be hard pressed to prefer one over the other. They are enough dissimilar I think of them as optimized for different uses. So far, I have handled them enough so that operation with either is easy and comfortable, but have not had a whole lot of field experience. What should I be looking for?
 
Both the soldier and OHT are great, but if I have to put it in my pocket, I go for the soldier/SI/Pioneer/Farmer. I don't like pocket clips, and without one OHT just doesn't work for my as a pocket carry.
 
mp510, That may be another possibility.

It's interesting to note that a knife similar to the one-hand Trekker has already been in the possession of some Swiss soldiers. The October edition of Roger's newsletter showed a one-hand Trekker that was "allowed for the swiss army soldiers to edc". Btw, I emailed Roger yesterday to see if he has any more for sale. [edit]He's still got the 90 Armee Camo OHT in stock. Woo hoo! I was missing that one from my collection.[/edit]

znapschatz, I don't dislike the one-hand Trekker, I just prefer the Soldier. I like the compact size of the Soldier (and Farmer). I don't care for the serrated blade or the center mounted Phillips on the one-hand Trekker--it requires way too much clearance.
 
znapschatz said:
...They are enough dissimilar I think of them as optimized for different uses...
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That's a good point. Although their tool selection is similar (more similar to the Farmer), they are quite different and optimized for different uses. I like the one-hand opening locking blade on the one-hand Trekker... but for me the small size of the Soldier (or Farmer) and it's plain edge blade are more practical for every day usage.
 
supratentorial said:
He's still got the 90 Armee Camo OHT in stock.
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I believe Roger may have both the older version and the '08 version (the difference being the shape of the thumbhole and words "press" on the liners of the '08 model. I personally prefer the old thumbhole style, but many others disagree.
CamoOHTx3_sm.jpg
 
znapschatz said:
Could you put into words why it is you gentlemen prefer the Soldier over the OHT? This is of interest to me because lately I have been alternating both (Pioneer, actually, but close enough) for EDC as a "review" project. At this point, I would be hard pressed to prefer one over the other. They are enough dissimilar I think of them as optimized for different uses. So far, I have handled them enough so that operation with either is easy and comfortable, but have not had a whole lot of field experience. What should I be looking for?
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Just a personal preference for the alox soldier, that's all. I suspect the larger OHT can be a nuisance if one is saving on bulk and weight, but I may be wrong. Did you find either one more portable or do they carry the same? Neither is perfect in this department, and the locking blade feature/tweezers/toothpick is an advantage for the OHT.
Don't know if the serrations is a factor, either. I suspect the alox soldier may be more bombproof than the OHT.

So, I guess you're in a better position to judge (I don't have a OHT), but for me "carry-ability" is key as it will be most useful when I need it if it carries well on my person, without hanging it from a belt or needing to put it in a larger jacket pocket.
 
I don't know if I'm getting the newer or older version of the "ARMEE" knife... but I think I'm getting the best version. ;)

I think it's comfortable to pocket carry the one-hand Trekker (same goes for the SwissTool Spirit) but the Soldier is really nice and compact--I forget that I'm carrying it until I need it. Here are a couple quick comparison scans:

farmer_oht.jpg


soldier_oht_spirit.jpg


soldier_farmer_oht_spirit.jpg
 
Ultraman said:
Just a personal preference for the alox soldier, that's all. I suspect the larger OHT can be a nuisance if one is saving on bulk and weight, but I may be wrong. Did you find either one more portable or do they carry the same? Neither is perfect in this department, and the locking blade feature/tweezers/toothpick is an advantage for the OHT.
Don't know if the serrations is a factor, either. I suspect the alox soldier may be more bombproof than the OHT.

So, I guess you're in a better position to judge (I don't have a OHT), but for me "carry-ability" is key as it will be most useful when I need it if it carries well on my person, without hanging it from a belt or needing to put it in a larger jacket pocket.
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Suspended from belt by dummy cord into my jeans RF pocket, the felt weight is almost nil for either, although the OHT definitely takes up more space. Doesn't seem a burden, but time will tell if I can live with it. This is my carry method for anything not on my belt in a sheath. It works somewhat less well for dress pants, depending, but since I am in jeans more than 95% of the time, seldom an issue. Might be a whole other thing if carried loose in the pocket. In that case, the Soldier seems a better fit.
 
mp510 said:
I wonder if the slight change from the existing Vic configuration could be a way to add a level of transparency- to make it look as though the contract is not geared towards being awarded to Vic.
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as they say theres 3 companys that they have send infos, one of them is my swissbianco company and i watched the whole thing since last summer as an good friend from swiss informed me while in usa, all i can say this is absolute mess!!

it would be the crowning pinnacle if those people mixed up the canopener with the bottleopener hat has to be locking...not eaven nowing that difference.

another slap is that according to the press they say they did not find any good foreign company that would be able to supply the quality needed! i could tell at leats 25 companys that could do that. after i ask them who and when has ruled that they havent to let bid foreign companys they tell me basically its not my buiseness. i will tell them what my buiseness is or not, its 2008 and switzerland and as an swiss citizen and taxpayer that has see all the mess they did its my duty to inform and allready theres people interesting in whriting how that "trial" is going on, like in midage in bananarepublica.

im sorry for the hard words but within 6 days as they send the infos, nobody can design an sak for them and if they have, then they now it way earlyer...talking about backdoor deal.

at the end the swiss soldier loose. its 2008 and an sak must be able to disassembly for proper cleaning. an rivetet construction wont work best as the taxpayers money should have been spend.

the main goal to get involved in that trial was for me to get the original infos so i can use them in my coming book about the military sak history. backed with theyr emails i can proove how wrong they are and the swiss press will get it if theyr not blind.

at the end, victorinox will win the contract with whatever model, sure with an serrated blade that no one can reharpen as it should be, wenger will loos its 50% deal, not an big problem moneywise but the image is hurt - they dont make no tru swiss army knife anymore. and swissbianco will whrite the tru story down in his book and emigrate, working on the best feature "sak" in usa with the freedom he needs.

+B
 
swissbianco said:
... sak must be able to disassembly for proper cleaning. an rivetet construction wont work best ...
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Roger, Are you thinking that the Soldier or one-hand Trekker should be constructed in such a way that it can be disassembled for cleaning? Or are you thinking that the knife should be replaced with something entirely different... maybe more like a tactical folder?
 
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