No love for simple carbon steels?

Wolf Creek Forge

Wolf Creek Forge

Joined
Jul 4, 2012
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I read a lot of feedback from knife buyers..Not just my own but anywhere I can find it..It seems there is less and less love for the simple carbon steels. 1075,1084,1095 etc..We (Phillip even more so) have tried to educate some of the public about real world performace and the cost effectiveness of simple carbon steels but it dosnt seem to make a difference. Even with simple carbon steels we try our best to heat treat it correctly and the best of our ability. Temp control, parks 50 etc..Im kind of disheartened to hear "thats a nice knife, how much" Its $xxx.."great, what steel?" Its 1084(or 1095) Then the sad look " Oh, ok thanks anyway"..
Do you think the advent of all these new "super steels" has put people off of simple carbon? Or are they just use to the superior edge retention and corrosion resistance? It seems that some smaller knives will still move ok in simple carbon but when you get into specialty styles and larger knives then people just dont want the simple carbon anymore..
Ah well, maybe thats just part of the game..
 
I love carbon steel knives, but 01 is my last choice. I find that is rusts / stains if you sweat or breathe near it or even look at it wrong. YMMV.

Part of the "problem" is that people, even those unwilling to openly admit it, know their own limitations in maintaining their gear. ( Mine is with 01. ;) )

I put together an emergency bag years ago to keep in the car. The knife of choice was a 440C skinner with a 4" blade. I knew it was tough, easy to sharpen, and wouldn't easily rust over the hot humid months it was tucked away back there. The SHTF bug-out pack at the house has a 1095 chopper with a 9" blade. It is in-sight in a semi climate-controlled environment and I check it regularly.
 
I feel your pain! After using 1084 for a few months and even making my personal hunting knife from that steel, I believe it is one of the best 10xx steels for a knife! But I see a lot of others turn their noses up at it. Most have never used it. I really don't have any answers for you. I thought about making short video's showing how well a particular knife made with a 10xx steel could perform and include that video into my sales thread. I'm not sure how much that would help though.
 
carbon steel is my favourtie always liked it, still so,rarly do i buy a stainless. Id rather spend more time using the knife then sharpening it. less expensive and i like fhag it rusts, kinda nostalgic.
 
People are very susceptible to marketing, so the super steels get a lot of interest. Some folks aren't sure if they're shopping for a good knife or bragging rights...

I love 1084, though cleaning out decarb during hand finishing just about eats up the cost savings of the inexpensive material. That's partly the fault of my own current techniques.

Since full-tang carbon steel knives can tarnish and corrode where you hold them, I'm considering balancing my 1084 more toward hidden tangs as I go that direction, and saving the fancier A2 and Stainless for the full-tangs. 1084/1095 make awesome kitchen blades as just a couple passes on a steel keeps 'em screaming sharp.

By contrast, I bet there are very few people asking for super steels in your tomahawks, Lisa. :-/
 
I can't keep my 1084 knives in stock, people test the edge and ure usually surprised at how much sharper they are than anything else they have handled and another sale. I don t charge as much for them as I do my CPM 154 knives, but if people handle the 1084 knives they buy them

-Page
 
As one who has used 1084 to make knives, I can say I have developed an appreciation for it. Had I never made a single knife, I would not necessarily be so impressed with it. When I first got into this knife thing I was all about the damascus. At that time I recall all the buzz on monosteels was about INFI. Busse fan boys were popping out of the woodworking singing the praises of INFI, and no other steel was getting that sort of attention. Then there was a spate of talk about Hitachi white and blue steels.

I think there is a segment of the market (who knows how big) that wants to ride the trend of the moment. As Page notes, I'd be surprised if that described the WHOLE market place, though. People like getting something they can brag about. That's why expensive boutique products sell. But other folks like getting solid reliable value, too.
 
Most of my stuff is tool and stainless steels, but I don't have any trouble selling blades in O1 or 1084 either. Lots of people still love simple steels, and probably always will. :)
 
Simple carbon steel works well... its easy to sharpen and easy to maintain once you're come to terms with the fact that it needs constant attention while in use. My experience with cs is in the kitchen and at first it was a bit of a pain but now it has become second nature to cut and wipe if cutting acid foots. Washing after use and not leaving soaking in water is also pretty much common sense. :) The majority of knives I've sold have been cs with a few stainless peppered in. But being in Texas, we don't have crazy humidity most of the time so folks don't have to worry about a knife rusting while sitting in a drawer or sheath for a few days.
 
I love the 1084/95 as a knife collector and as a hobby maker . I do have all the fancy steel knives as well.. but the knives I use the most are the good old carbon. I was talking to Aldo about this issue of people looking down on these steels because some feel that they are just cheap or bad. He asked if he charged more will people still feel the same way.. I said hmm. I don't know.

Anyway it all just goes in a big circle and somday it will be back to the begining
 
I love carbon steels and am a firm believer in 1084 and 1095 properly heat treated..i still sale a lot of knives in each but i do see more people thumbing their noses at them now than before..
dont get me wrong, i dont begrudge anyone for wanting cpm154 or 3V..We love em' too..I just think that carbon steels get a bad wrap sometimes..
 
I have never ran into someone snubbing one of my knives because of the steel. I use plain carbon almost exclusively. My knives would not look or function to my expectations with stainless. Besides... I think simple carbon steels are more eco-friendly, since they return to the Earth more readily:p.

Super steels take the stain out of sustainability.;)
 
From my viewpoint (stock removal, outsourcing heat treat) there's little reason for me to offer simpler steels. Most of the people I've sold knives to are buying the most expensive knife they've ever purchased (that's not saying much, they're used to Walmart cutlery) and if it's not the best steel available then it's a tougher pill for them to swallow.
I've actually got some A2 and O-1 knives that I haven't sold because people have held out for CPM 3V and S35SN instead. The cost increase really isn't that big, maybe about 10% of the total.

My knives aren't quite the art of Rick's or other makers either, so if my competition is ESEE or Bark River then I have to use steel at least as good as other offerings.

With the internet, more people are educated about steels. I have no proof, but I'm guessing that a ton of people are swayed towards the super steels but the crowd that can appreciate simple steels is probably growing too, just not as fast.
 
Wolf Creek Forge said:
Do you think the advent of all these new "super steels" has put people off of simple carbon? Or are they just use to the superior edge retention and corrosion resistance?
Ah well, maybe thats just part of the game..
Click to expand...

Yes and yes.

I do prefer stainless as I'm on the lazy side of maintenance other than sharpening... but have no qualms with carbon steels. Still use 'em fairly regularly.

Super steels and more so, their marketing have also pushed out some stainless. Take 440C for example, still one of my favorites. Unfortunately, it is hard (for me) to sell today. Many scoff at it thanks to mislabeled production junk and amateur heat treating.

Everyone wants the new hot mix. It seems the more letters and numbers in the steel type the more impressive.... try some of this exotic new kjgh-hg68 unobtanium alloy!

I think this also depends on other factors, though such as the style of your knives and the market you're after.

It isn't all bad. I do enjoy trying new materials.
 
I do have a bar of some of the brightest of the bright and lightest of the light... as soon as I figure out how to make it rust and wear, I'll use it for something.

IMG_0048-5.jpg
 
Rick Marchand said:
I have never ran into someone snubbing one of my knives because of the steel. I use plain carbon almost exclusively. My knives would not look or function to my expectations with stainless. Besides... I think simple carbon steels are more eco-friendly, since they return to the Earth more readily:p.

Super steels take the stain out of sustainability.;)
Click to expand...

Yeah... they snub your knives because they suck!

Edit: ...and because they're Canadian.
 
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