No Luck With Edge Pro Apex

I'm intrigued and as you can see we're with you on this. Man my thoughts are all over this. I'm going into work now but will be writing down things to send to you latter. How do you check if there is a burr if you can't see one? What are you determining if the edge is sharp or not? Latter
 
singularity35 said:
One of the most important skills when using an edge pro is spotting a burr. With coarser stones, burrs should be visible to the naked eye.
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Indeed. With finer stones, burrs can still be felt or snag a fingernail. (I don't even use a loupe.)

BluegrassBrian said:
... work them from 500 through 3k ...
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meh ... If you can't raise a burr there's no sense going through a progression.

Get a 'practice' knife and the 320 (got a 240?) and keep at it till you raise a burr. Only then go to a finer stone.
 
TravisH said:
Indeed. With finer stones, burrs can still be felt or snag a fingernail. (I don't even use a loupe.)
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I no longer use a loupe. After some experience, I can usually tell what's going on. I only use a loupe when something's happening with the edge that's not what I expect.


TravisH said:
meh ... If you can't raise a burr there's no sense going through a progression.

Get a 'practice' knife and the 320 (got a 240?) and keep at it till you raise a burr. Only then go to a finer stone.
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Agreed.
 
In my opinion I don't think the sharpie markup is good enough to tell whether you're hitting the apex or not, but should just be used to confirm that you're starting off at the correct angle. If I've got the angle correct any sharpie marking is pretty much removed on the first stroke of the stone - but that doesn't mean my edge is apexed. Much better to look at the scratch patterns with a magnifier if you're not sure what's happening.
 
When you make your swipes make sure the knife isn't wobbling every time you put pressure on the blade. When you go to measure the angle everything seems fine because there's very little pressure but you won't be hitting the apex because every time you push a little the apex moves away from the stone. And don't rely solely on the sharpie. You'll wear the marker off the edge before you hit the apex if youre at the right angle. Use a marker to make sure your angle is right and after that try using the scratch pattern and the burr to tell you when to move on. That's far more accurate than the marker, but the marker is easier.

But I bet it's the knife wobbling. Is it a full flat grind knife or something else? Full flat grind blades are the easiest to sharpen on the EP for that very reason. The opposite is true for clamping systems.

And I use a paper towel to check for burrs. They catch easily on the paper fibers.
 
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OP, you're not apexing the edge. Normally you don't want to raise a sizeable burr, but in this case, you really should to make sure you're grinding all the way to the very edge. It should be easily visible under magnification.
 
aesmith said:
In my opinion I don't think the sharpie markup is good enough to tell whether you're hitting the apex or not, but should just be used to confirm that you're starting off at the correct angle. If I've got the angle correct any sharpie marking is pretty much removed on the first stroke of the stone - but that doesn't mean my edge is apexed. Much better to look at the scratch patterns with a magnifier if you're not sure what's happening.
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I'm with you, I posted before I saw you wrote the same thing.
 
It could be that you are flipping a wire edge back and forth. Try spending more time at a lower grit and more acute angle. The 120 stock stone is aggressive enough for reprofiling. Move through the grits patiently. Then raise the angle 2 or 3 degrees and form a secondary bevel (cutting edge) which should help destroy the wire. Move through the medium to fine grits for the secondary bevel. Practice on some 1095 if you have it. S90v is a bear. Let the stones do the work. Cut some paper at the end of each grit cycle and you should feel it getting smoother. If you can't cut at low grit, try to remove the burr with one or two light strokes and straighten things up. No burr needed at finer grits past 600 or so. You may have to angle the stone near the tip and heel depending on edge geometry.
 
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BluegrassBrian said:
I'm using shapton stones with the edge pro. 320, 500, 1k, 3k and 6k. It came with a horse hide strop for it, but I use my own strop with 1 micron spray typically. I've been using water with a tiny drop of dish soap in it like many people suggest
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This isn't going to solve your sharpening problem but you shouldn't be using soapy water with the Shapton stones.
 
For finding the burr I use my thumb. I like to examine the edge with a loupe once i feel the burr but often i cant really SEE it.

I gauge the sharpness of my knives with phone book paper. Its about the most useful thing that big book of landlines has done in about 10 years.

It didnt take long to realize holding the knife steady on the table was going to be important. I have the neodymium magnet to stabilize it but I still focus on maintaining the same angle throughout the process.

As far as the water goes, I havent used the lightly soapy water on the Shaptons, just the stock stones. I neglected to add that detail when I was replying from my phone.

Im going to try some more when I get home shortly. I will focus on the burr and try to implement the tips that everyone has mentioned. I do appreciate those who have added their $.02 in a helpful manner.
 
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Ok.
Started working this afternoon on a N690Co blade made by a maker on here.
I took extra special care to work each side until I had a burr running the entire length of the edge. After I was finished with the 320 grit stone it was already slicing decently through phone book paper.
Just repeated the process with the 500 grit stone. Worked both sides very well then gave it a light strop. Its slicing the paper like butter.

I have to leave for work in a minute, but I will probably do the 1k stone when I get home later.

Needless to say I'm happy with the results thus far. Im grateful to all of you for, at the very least, not letting me give up.
Just another reason why this is the best place for all things knife.
 
With a 20X loupe and a flashlight a burr will appear as a thin bright line and may have small slivers of steel on it. The illuminated line will be micrometers thick. It will be on the side opposite of the one you have been working on. After 600 to 1000 on the stock stones no burr is formed... Just polishing it up. By 1k you are shaving.
 
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Just used my EPA for the first time and took a kitchen knife that couldn't even cut a tomato up to where it'll easily slice unsupported paper and shave hair. It's like a revelation! I love this thing!!
 
Don't forget to use tape on blades you don't want marked by the stones.
 
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Ok Blue way to go. I wrote six pages of notes today, glad the others were there sooner to get you up and running. It just keeps getting better and better. There's no place like home.
 
D729 said:
Ok Blue way to go. I wrote six pages of notes today, glad the others were there sooner to get you up and running. It just keeps getting better and better. There's no place like home.
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Haha by all means..you can forward these notes my way. I'd hate for the effort to be for naught.

I suppose I was underestimating the importance of the burr.
 
BluegrassBrian said:
Haha by all means..you can forward these notes my way. I'd hate for the effort to be for naught.

I suppose I was underestimating the importance of the burr.
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The burr is the only way to make sure that you've reached the apex. Some people can rebevel and get sharp without making a burr(so they say) but that's a level of skill that's beyond me. I find that I can only have consistent results on the EP if I make a burr.

One of the first things I had to learn when using the EP was to recognize a burr. At first, I had to make a big burr to make sure. After a while, I didn't need to make as large a burr because I could recognize it and know by experience what was going on at the edge.

I had been freehanding since I was in my teens. I never learned what a burr was and hair scraping sharp was the ultimate sharpness for me before I started perusing knife forums.
 
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Took it up to 4k today..wow.

Its a level of polish and sharp that was impossible with the Sharpmaker.
 
Hi Blue, 4K amazing huh! Glad you got this down. Most of the guys shared a lot of what was in my notes but I've got a few things to share when I'm not so tired, so I'll get back soon.
Congratulations and happy trails.
 
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