No nothing about burrs, but need help

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LawyerSam

Joined
Jun 25, 2010
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Reading about systems and went to Bass Pro tonight. Got a $5 house brand of sharpener, thinking Id see how it does on kitchen knives. After 15 minutes on like 3 knives, I dont notice anything. They had a $24 Smith system with rods and a similarly priced Lansky. Had a stone with holes in the top, one ceramic, like 800 and the other a 320 diamond.

I have read to get the DMT aligner, or Sharpmaker. I also was told to try freehand and get one stone, a Norton, 200/1000.

I have the one pocket knife, Spyderco Persistence, and it is keen. I have a Forschner kitchen knife that is sharp. I have one of those steel rods that I use every other time when I use the Forschner. But some small paring knives are I guess dull by comparison. I didnt even go to the drawer where we keep the cheap Walmart knives.


It would be nice to try to restore some degree of sharpness to all those other knives, but you may say dont, and just try to keep the pocket knives and the Forschner sharp.

I think I can get a Sharpmaker for $45 on Amazon, but easier is more likely to result in more usage by me.

Suggestions?
 
I have read to get the DMT aligner, or Sharpmaker. I also was told to try freehand and get one stone, a Norton, 200/1000.
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Yeah, that. :D Any of those would probably work fine, but each has its strong/weak points.

*****[opinion/wild guess]******

I would bet the Sharpmaker would have the smoothest learning curve, but that the stone would give you the best chance of getting a variety of knives sharp once you learned how to use it. The Aligner, once you had it set up, might give you the best edge of the bunch though.

*****[/opinion/wild guess]******

I have worked with all of those types of systems, though not those particular ones, and they each have something going for them.

I have a ceramic rod in the kitchen that was my 'touchup' for years, and it took literally 30 seconds to put a working edge back on my knife. THAT was easy, but it also couldn't handle a really dull knife, so it had limitations as well.
 
Any Cal. said:
Yeah, that. :D Any of those would probably work fine, but each has its strong/weak points.

I would bet the Sharpmaker would have the smoothest learning curve, but that the stone would give you the best chance of getting a variety of knives sharp once you learned how to use it. The Aligner, once you had it set up, might give you the best edge of the bunch though.

I have worked with all of those types of systems, though not those particular ones, and they each have something going for them.

I have a ceramic rod in the kitchen that was my 'touchup' for years, and it took literally 30 seconds to put a working edge back on my knife. THAT was easy, but it also couldn't handle a really dull knife, so it had limitations as well.
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Keep in mind that the Aligner comes with excellent diamond hones that can be used free hand very easily if so desired. Plus you have the possibility of getting the infamous XX-Coarse stone for it.
 
Richard, been reading that, but I dont have a belt sander. I am thinking the investment is too much?
 
Any Cal> Yeah, I figured that. I read posts in this sub forum and see someone loves the Duosharp system so I go read up on that. Others say that go to you tube, learn freehand and dont worry about clamps and yes, you can get a variety of knives sharp. I tried to get off the schneid and get that cheap finger thing at Bass Pro last night and it did not do well. Maybe the kitchen knives are duller than I thought. The guy there, who had a SOG Flash 2, said to get the Red Head ceramic/diamond stone, $24 or so, about 6x2.25 or something like that and freehand.
 
LawyerSam, I was as confused as you three months ago about what sharpener to get. I had to start somewhere so I just took the plunge going with the most recommended with the fastest learning curve. I tried sandpaper on glass, sandpaper on mousepad but I couldn't get consistent results. You may want to try the sandpaper first. It may work for you as it did not for me but it sure is the cheapest way to start.
 
Singularity, my problem is the axiom, measure twice, cut once. I tend to read and try to get a consensus of experiences. One seems to be that the Sharpmaker kit, you can never go wrong. I would rather pay a few bucks more on the front end and get something right, and get quality and something I wont outgrow. But I also read that freehand skills would be invaluable. I do have some honing experience with straight razors and using a leather glued to a board and using diamond paste. Since the razor is held flat against the board, no angle requirement.

I dont know that the sandpaper thing would help. I have an old mousepad and can run to Lowes and get sand paper and have an old steak/paring knife that I could use if you really think that.

Read the Duosharp, about a $110 DMT system. I can get the Sharpmaker for about $45 shipped.
 
Sharpmaker is easy to use, but if your knife's edge isn't equal to or less than 40*, have fun. You'll be at it for quite a while.
 
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Kya, there is the rub. How do I know if any knife is 40 or 20 degrees? I have a Persistence and then the kitchen knives.
 
If you are looking to save some time when compared to the basic Spyderco Sharpmaker, get the diamond rods. That should be able to handle your Persistence and kitchen knives.
 
Can you get a Spydeco with just the diamond rods? I dont want to spend $45 for a kit and then another $20 or so for more rods. Maybe I have to, maybe I am overthinking this, and maybe being too cheap
 
I don't have a sharpmaker right now, but would bet that you could buy it and use it. Then, if you wanted to get benchstones, you would still use the sharpmaker often for touchups. That being the case...you wouldn't be rebuying anything.
 
LawyerSam said:
Can you get a Spydeco with just the diamond rods? I dont want to spend $45 for a kit and then another $20 or so for more rods. Maybe I have to, maybe I am overthinking this, and maybe being too cheap
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Keep in mind $20 is just for one rod, it'll still be slow going, and you will want the standard medium and fine rods. You really don't know what angle your knife's blade is. Most of my knives (Persistence included) came from the factory with bevels >40*. However, knives are hand sharpened at the factory so the edge/angle depends on who sharpened it, what mood they were in, what they ate for lunch, etc.
 
Ok, I am so confused. So the Sharpmaker may not be all that great. I am tempted to get the combo (medium on one side, fine on the other) Bass Pro house brand 8" stone and free hand and try it on my crappy Maxam, those $5 cheapies and then the cheap kitchen steak knives and by that time, should be good enough to touch up the Spyderco.. Good idea or bad?
 
LawyerSam said:
Ok, I am so confused. So the Sharpmaker may not be all that great. I am tempted to get the combo (medium on one side, fine on the other) Bass Pro house brand 8" stone and free hand and try it on my crappy Maxam, those $5 cheapies and then the cheap kitchen steak knives and by that time, should be good enough to touch up the Spyderco.. Good idea or bad?
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This CAN be a good idea, if you approach it with patience (take your time), and stay focused on technique (maintaining a consistent angle, using light-to-moderate pressure, inspecting the edge for uniformity, etc). Also keep in mind, when sharpening cheap knives, that the steel might not attain the sharpest of edges, even in the most skilled hands. Focus on the technique and appearance & uniformity of the edge. Inspect it under magnification to see if your bevels are meeting cleanly & sharply at the edge. With a cheap blade, you might not be able to make it cut as 'wickedly' as you want, because some cheap steels simply won't respond to that degree (although you can get 'lucky' occasionally).

Also keep in mind, when you decide to 'graduate' to sharpening a better blade, such as your Spyderco, the steel will likely 'feel' a bit harder and/or tougher to get to a clean, sharp edge. This is when it's very important to stay patient, and maintain focus on the technique. If you're technique is good, and you stay patient as you go, the results will eventually bear that out.

If you are considering starting freehand with a bench stone, I'd suggest you use a Coarse/Fine instead of Medium/Fine. Depending upon the brand/type/quality of the stone, a Medium grit might not be as effective as you'd like, if you need to remove much metal from your blade. If you're ever going to do much 'serious' sharpening/reprofiling, you'll eventually need at least a Coarse stone to start anyway. It's best to get acquainted early with the 'feel' of a coarse stone, so you know exactly what it's capable of doing for you. The Fine side of the stone can/will handle almost all of the light maintenance & touch-ups.
 
I agree with Obsessed. Yes, get a very coarse stone. It will help you get the hang of things and establish your bevel much more quickly. That's really what sharpening is about at first. You can then use finer stones in exactly the same way to refine your edges.

IMHO, it's best to start by freehanding on stones for good reasons. It quickly teaches you the basics of how to form and hold your own angles, which is the essence of sharpening. That is most important. It's versatile- you can sharpen any knife to any degree that you wish to try. As an extra added bonus, it's very inexpensive. Even a cheap stone will sharpen many many many knives.

Once you understand how a knife gets sharp, you can make better informed decisions on what you want to try next, and you will still have your stones to back up whatever you get next. Every good sharpener has stones of one kind or another. Might just as well start there.
 
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Hi,

I'll give you my experiences with the Sharpmaker. This was my first foray into "good" sharpening systems.

The most important thing is to keep your knife consistently vertical. This is all muscle memory so practice makes perfect.

Use the same number of strokes left and right. This keeps the two edges even.

Use the sharpie trick. This lets you know if your angles are correct and that you're hitting the entire edge. Take a sharpie and color the entire secondary bevel, then take a swipe at the sharpmaker. Then see what portion of the edge you're hitting. Ideally, the ink is rubbed off the entire secondary bevel/edge.

The Sharpmaker comes with medium and fine grit rods. For repairing a chip or re-bevelling, or sharpening a dull knife, these grits are too fine. You can invest in the diamond rods (which is still a little too fine for serious work) or buy some medium grit sandpaper and wrap your rods. This provides a quick way to remove a lot of metal for very little cost.

Don't run your knife tip off the rods. This will round off a sharp point very quickly. I use the flats of the triangle and stop my stroke before going off the edge. With time you learn to lighten off at the end of the stroke but that's not easy at first.


With these tips in mind, here's what I do for a reasonably sharp edge: (assuming the edge geometry is already 30 degrees)

1. With the flats of the medium rods, I do one side until I feel a burr form on the opposite side.
2. I switch to the other side and repeat the same number of strokes. The burr is now on the other side.
3. I alternate each side for 5 strokes, then 4, then 3 and so on while applying less and less pressure.
4. I move on to the flats of the fine rods and repeat step 3, starting with 10 strokes each with light pressure and continue to lighten off until the burr is gone. By the end, I'm using only the weight of the knife blade or even less.

IF a stubborn burr refuses to go away with the fine rods, switch to the medium rods on the 40 degree setting and GENTLY take a few very light swipes, checking the burr every time. This can help the burr grind away. A few finishing swipes back on the fine rods at 30 degrees and you're done. Too much pressure at the end can raise a new burr that you don't want so care is needed.

In the end, this is the process: Grind enough metal equally on both sides to create a burr. This is the only sure way of making sure the two edges come together. Start polishing your new edge surfaces while decreasing the burr. Refine the edge until the burr is completely gone and you have a perfectly solid single edge.

Going beyond the fine grit using the ultra-fine rods (if you so desire) follow the same concepts but with even more care to not create a new burr. All you want to do is to refine those very fine scratch pattern from the fine rods to something that's close to a mirror like surface. At this point, you move on to stropping. And that's a whole another process. ;)

I hope this helps.
 
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Smith 3 in 1? http://www.thegreatknifeshop.com/se...g-System,-Medium-fdsh-Fine-fdsh-Coarse/Detail

also shown here at bass pro

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s..._10847_425011006_425000000_425011000_425-11-6

or

the red head at bass pro

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...207416_425011006_425000000_425011000_425-11-6



This is the one I tried using last night on some dull kitchen knives

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...425000000_425011000?cmCat=CROSSSELL_THUMBNAIL

All it did was make the white on the ceramic rods turn to the silvery steel color. I went like 20 times on the carbide and 10 or so on the ceramic on one knife and did not notice anything. I was about to return it but will wait until you weigh on on this thread and some of y ou may tell me to work with this cheapy thing and see what I can do and how I can tell if it is working.
 
One thing to add here. If you intend to modify the secondary bevel angle to say, 30 degrees from whatever comes from the factory, using the sandpaper (I think I use 320 grit or finer) wrap saves a lot of time and money. Since you're technically slicing into the paper, it wears out quickly but it grinds metal very quickly so it's not too bad. As soon as you see the two edges meet (another use for the sharpie trick) go to the medium rods.
 
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