No pin/butt plate Handle question

David Stifle

David Stifle

Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
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I'm not really a new guy any more, I've been making knives for awhile now and thought I had a pretty good knowledge level. But, lately I've seen quite a few pictures of knives with handles that had no pins and no butt plate. They are not mortised handles, but hidden tang style. If I didn't know better, I'd think they were just glued on. I hope you guys understand what the heck I'm trying to say here, and...can anyone explain how this style of handle is done?

Thanks,

Dave
 
Maybe they just have notches in the sides of the tang for the epoxy to fill in? I do that, but I also use a pin.
 
JT, I assumed since these knives were made by experienced guys that they were doing something different. I don't think the handles are just glued on, but who knows?Maybe they are mortised, just so well no one can tell. In that case, they could have hidden pins.

R/Dave
 
I do mortised with hidden pins a lot. If done properly it holds well, also if the mortised scales are matching good and scales are full flat the joint cannot be seen easily. I mostly prefer this kind of construction not to break the pattern of the wood with pins...
 
I definitely understand hidden pins in a mortised tang. There's a theory that those are more durable than a true hidden tang, since if the wood does swell a bit, it has a place to flex a bit without cracking.

Like Dave, I'm just curious if there's a technique I don't know about.
 
With a notched tang and a high end epoxy like accra-glass or even JB Weld a well fitted hidden tang knife is almost impossible to break apart without destroying the handle material. I wouldn't recommend it in a chopping blade but I've made more than a few smaller knives in a similar fashion.
 
I'm, with Will, here. Putting some notches down the tang, and using T-88 resin will make the handle impossible to disassemble without destruction.
Stacy
 
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The only knives I make that are glued only are with an antler handle, so that's the only thing I can speak for, but with the porosity of the pith and the holes drilled through the tang, the handle is built much more solidly than I am capable of dissasembling without a chisel.
 
One of the first knives I put a handle on was a Scandinavian blade by Helle. I didn't use a high end epoxy, just Devcon 2 ton. Just a hole in the wood and the sides of the tang roughed up with some 220 sandpaper, 5 very shallow notches in the spine of the tang. I decided to take that handle off and re-do it about a week ago. It took a hammer and chisel and more than a few tries to get it free. It's not the strongest construction method, but it was stronger than the birdseye maple handle.

Walter
 
Notches in the tang and indentations in the hole with a quality epoxy will be plenty strong enough for just about anything you could do to a knife.
If the tang has some deep notches and the hole has big divots in it or tapers towards the front then you are not relying on the epoxy to stick at all. You've created a mechanical bond by wedging a solid piece of hardened epoxy between the tang and the handle. Acraglass or JB-Weld will be as strong or stronger than the wood around it.
That said I still like to see a pin because you never know if the maker is utilizing the compressive strength of epoxy or if they are relying on the relatively weak tensile strength.
 
I know some guys make barbed tangs. Once the handle is fit to the tang, they slide the handle back off.

Drill some small holes through the tang. Take short brass pins, run them through those tang holes, then silver solder or braze them to the tang, and then bend them up toward the guard. Then epoxy and assemble.

They're basically like barbs on a fishing hook.

I've also talked to a couple guys that put a couple roll pins through the tang and use a broach to cut a channel for the roll pins to slide down into.

These methods were used by some really big names... probably the same guys who's work you saw that made you wonder about it. :)

Edited for clarity
 
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