No pocket knives on the plane

W

Will.223

Joined
Mar 1, 2000
Messages
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I'm a southern man. I'm 51 years old today. I've carried a pocket knife since I was five years old. Yet, on a quick trip overseas last week, no pocket knives were allowed. This included a Victorinox "Classic". When the food was served, the cutlery provided was made from plastic. Have you ever tried to cut your "airline steak" with a plastic knife? I realize that we have to be safe as we travel, but no pocket knife and plastic eating utensils sure made me feel bad.
I'll be glad when this skinny Bin Laden character finally gets to meat his Allah face to face and explain his actions.

Will
 
Follow the news pretty closely, do you Will? :rolleyes: You were surprised by not being able to carry a pocketknife on board? It sure ain't right, but it's definitely the law of the land, err, skies now.
 
I'll be glad when they get Bin Laden too, but that won't mean that there will be any changes to these rules that the airlines have about knives. They are probably here to stay.
 
I agree Wiii.

I for one feel no safer at all not being able to carry a pocketknife, nail clipper, etc. And in my opinion, no one else should either. The terrorists are probably laughing themseleves silly over these new rules in the US. Rules that only restrict the freedom and liberties of law abiding Americans - which is one of the intended goals of terrorism. Anyone that thinks we will get our carryin' rights back is most likely sadly mistaken. Once taken, such things are rarely given back.

While I do believe that our government needs to take steps to protect us, denying us the right to carry such tools as pocketknives, folding, scissors, fingernail clippers, etc., is not going to protect us. The very idea of it leaves one to wonder the rationale behind such actions.

I too am personally hurt when the government tells me that I cannot be trusted to carry a pocketknife. I am a law abiding citizen, who has served my country for many years, and can't carry a simple pocketknife because some fanatics attacked our country.

My questions is, who is being punished here?

Originally posted by Will.223
I'm a southern man. I'm 51 years old today. I've carried a pocket knife since I was five years old. Yet, on a quick trip overseas last week, no pocket knives were allowed. This included a Victorinox "Classic". When the food was served, the cutlery provided was made from plastic. Have you ever tried to cut your "airline steak" with a plastic knife? I realize that we have to be safe as we travel, but no pocket knife and plastic eating utensils sure made me feel bad.
I'll be glad when this skinny Bin Laden character finally gets to meat his Allah face to face and explain his actions.

Will
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I've only flown commercial three times: to Ft. McClellan for Basic and AIT, to Saudi, and from Saudi. All were military related.

You can bet I'll never willingly fly commercial again as long as this stupidity lasts (it's probably permanent). If anyone ever suggests I "support" the airlines, I'll get very, very angry.

Karl
 
Rick1955 – you hit the nail on the head. Banning pocked knives has nothing to do with making us safer but rather everything to do with making the average American think they’re safer so they’ll keep the airline industry afloat. It’s unlikely the small amount of metal in a razor blade will set off the metal detector and it would be easy enough to just hide the thin blade it in your carry-on bag.

Unfortunately we’ll never know but I wonder how many of the passengers on the flight that crashed in PA reached for their pocket knives when they decided to fight back?
 
Originally posted by Safety Guy
I've only flown commercial three times: to Ft. McClellan for Basic and AIT, to Saudi, and from Saudi. All were military related.

You can bet I'll never willingly fly commercial again as long as this stupidity lasts (it's probably permanent). If anyone ever suggests I "support" the airlines, I'll get very, very angry.

Karl
Click to expand...

BRAVO, SafetyGuy! If the airlines were more concerned with safety to begin with, they (and we) may never have been in this stituation. That's not to say Bin Laden wouldn't have found another way (remember the first WTC bombing?).

As far as I'm concerned a ship, train, bus or my car will get me wherever I want to go. I for one will do what I can to avoid taking a plane anytime in the future. Not out of fear (less of a chance of getting hit by lightning than Bin Laden's bunch), but of disgust. I guess the ValuJet and TWA 700 incidents just weren't enough notice. And don't anybody tell me that it's people with my attitude that are keeping the economy down -- maybe this attitude will bail Greyhound out of its hole.

I know this may make some hot under the collar, and I hesitated in posting until I saw AG Russell's email this morning. If he can have the courage to put off some of his customers (and thereby effect his business) by saying what he believes is right, then we should all feel obligated to do the same.

I think I'll be spending more tiime in the "political" forum from now on.

-Al-
 
You got steak on a flight? :eek:

If you're not planning to fly until you get your knives back, don't plan on ever flying again.
 
Is it that big deal that you can't carry your knife on a flight? I used to carry my LUDT with me. One year ago they didn't have a problem with it, but now you can't carry nail clippers on.

You can still check them through. I can't think of a single situation where I was sitting on a plane and thought to myself, "Damn, I'm glad I have my pocket knife with me." Do you plan on getting mail on the flight? No need to open letters.
 
Yes, it is a big deal.

First let me say, that I fully support efforts to make us "safe" - my question is, does restricting us from carrying knives (especially small pocketknives), fingernail clippers, etc. - make us "safe"? In the case of commercial aircraft, I am much more concerned that a mechanical failure, weather or other events will cause the thing to fall from the sky with me in it.

First of all, the restriction of knives especially small LEGAL pocketknives and other "sharp" objects such as fingernail clippers demostrates that there is no rationale to the restriction. The are small everyday ordinary TOOLS. Fingernail clippers now - that is a dangerous weapon. This has for some people created an illusion of safety. Is there anyone out there that really feels safer because of these restrictions? I don't. Think about it. The way things are going we will not be able to carry pens, pencils, keys, credit cards - think it is not true? - many years ago my father told me that the day would come that we would not be able to legally carry fingernail clippers - well that day is here. Our state fair banned "pocketknives and other weapons" - Yet the state law clearly indicates that (With a few specific exceptions) pocketknives are not weapons and are legal to carry.

The big deal is that everytime something bad happens the response is to restrict the liberties and freedoms of law abiding people. If that is not a big deal, I don't know what is. It makes no sense to restrict the legal activites of law abiding people - restrict the activities of the criminals instead! In my opinion, law abiding people should be very concerned about this. Once taken, rights and liberties are rarely reinstated.

Reminds me of an incident of a drunk driver running a stop sign, hitting another car and killing the driver and one of the occupants of the other vehicle. The drunk driver who as I recall was not even injured, did not even remember the crash let alone the stop sign. What was the response of the city to prevent such a terrible event in the future? - install a traffic light! I'll bet that will stop those drunk drivers. (The driver, this was a repeat offense - was prosecuted - but the other two people are still dead and in all probability the drunk will drive again)

Besides, there are lots of reasons to carry a knife - remember, your survival knife is the one you have on you when a survival situation arises. Knives are tools with many purposes - other than the obvious, such things as cutting seatbelts to rescue someone - perhaps yourself from a vehicle or aircraft, performing an emergency cricothyroidotomy, as an emergency screwdriver, and many more. There are many stories of people saving people using a simple pocketknife. I suppose that if a person has never been in a survival situation and needed a knife, they would not understand. But then I know a lot of people that drive around on an almost empty fuel tank, do not carry some basic tools, flashlight, jumper cables, or fire extinquisher in their vehicles. Not very wise in my opinion, but it is their choice.

The key to preventing crime is to deal with the criminals - not the law abiding citizens. Criminals generally are very happy to see others' liberties and rights restricted - since the criminal pays no attention to those concepts anyway.

Being what I consider to be a good citizen, I will obey the law to the best of my ability - but I will let my elected representatives know what I think about such things.


Originally posted by GaRebel
Is it that big deal that you can't carry your knife on a flight? I used to carry my LUDT with me. One year ago they didn't have a problem with it, but now you can't carry nail clippers on.

You can still check them through. I can't think of a single situation where I was sitting on a plane and thought to myself, "Damn, I'm glad I have my pocket knife with me." Do you plan on getting mail on the flight? No need to open letters.
Click to expand...
 
Very well said, Rick!

Not being allowed to carry a pocketknife or nail clippers on a flight might seem trivial, but look at the big picture. Small useful pocketknives are not the problem, and you never know when a blade might become a life-saving instrument, and not just for "taking out terrorists." A few years ago a doctor on board a flight was able to save a choking child's life because another passenger handed him an SAK the doctor used to cut an airway. Now that might seem like a one in a million, but WHAT IF no one had a knife on that flight??? The child would be dead.

Once rights are taken away, they are NEVER returned. The vast majority of people do NOT seem to mind a little right taken away here, another one taken away there...as long as it gives them the illusion of safety and makes them feel better, to hell who else's rights are affected. Then when rights are continually taken away, think about it. Because it seems to happen gradually, it seems like nothing; but the loss of all these rights add up to a very big loss of our freedoms.

No, I don't need a pocketknife like a child needs a security blanket (as some who don't see these losses of rights as a big deal might have you believe). It's the principle. I am a law-abiding American adult, yet am being treated like a dangerous, mentally imbalanced young child. Yet these restrictions will stop NOTHING if terrorists want to commit further acts. Next they will restrict belts, steel-toed boots, pens, pencils, maybe even eyeglasses (which could be disassembled to make a stabbing instrument if you really want to stretch it). A ring on your finger can be an impact weapon. Are you or your wife willing to not be allowed to wear your wedding rings because of that? It won't affect me, because I'm not married. Yet I still see the stupidity such a restriction would be if it happened. Think it can't? I never thought bladeless nail clippers would be restricted on an airline, but they are now.
Never underestimate what the government will restrict to appease the fearful, nor what rights the fearful are willing to give up for a false quick fix.
Jim
 
Originally posted by Rick1955
Yes, it is a big deal.

Our state fair banned "pocketknives and other weapons" - Yet the state law clearly indicates that (With a few specific exceptions) pocketknives are not weapons and are legal to carry.
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If it's not illegal to carry the knives in what would have happened if you just ignored the rule? I've backed a few rent-a-cops and some uninformed policemen down before by carrying a copy of the state law.
 
How about this? Your checked bagage does not always arrive when and where you do,so being the be prepared guy that I am I like to have things WITH ME!

I have also had to spend nights in cites I never planned upon because of weather and once an airport was closed due to a crash.Know what?They didn't let me have my checked bagage those times either.

No offense but because one person can't think of a reason doesn't mean that there isn't any.Remember the story of the three little pigs? Two pigs cound not see the "need" to build a house out of stone either.
 
Originally posted by Gadgetman7


If it's not illegal to carry the knives in what would have happened if you just ignored the rule? I've backed a few rent-a-cops and some uninformed policemen down before by carrying a copy of the state law.
Click to expand...

It's private property. Law doesn't matter. That's why they're called FAA REGULATIONS, not laws. Beyond FAA regs, the carriers can set their own rules. Illinois has always had a state law against boarding a commercial aircraft with a knife over 3".

There are also laws regarding your interfering with an employee of the airlines or airports doing their jobs to enforce the regs or policy. So no, it's not illegal for you to ignore the regs, but it is illegal for you to refuse to heed their lawful instruction once they've given it to you. It's also not illegal for them to require you to go through an exhaustive, intrusive (read: rubber gloves and KY) search of your person and belongings before allowing you to enter the "sterile area" once they've determined that you may present a problem.

Of course, you also have the right to turn around and find alternate transportation. I hope that job interview across the country that you were headed to will see things your way and give you a couple of extra days to get there - never mind your competition for the job who just boarded the flight and who will be in the second round of interviews before you get there. Or your wife/daughter/sister will hold off a few extra days to give birth. Maybe that relative who's been in a car accident will keep their coma going for a couple days?

Choose your battles more wisely. This one's not going to go very far. Air travel is not a right guaranteed by the constitution, and arguing against what the general public perceives to be heightened safety and security is not going to do much beyond making them strengthen their views for the time being.

FYI - I'm in complete agreement that the regs are stupid and do nothing to increase security. But read a little Sun Tzu and think about the right time and place to fight this one.
 
Re; Knives on planes

Everyone has a valid point- and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

In the case of the airlines allowing pocket knives and/or any bladed implement on board flights I would like to make a suggestion for the sake of (in my case) the industry and also for the collector and knife lover.

These attacks on the WTC, the Pentagon and also (sometimes not mentioned enough) the flight that went down in Pennsylvania were so horrific and obscene that the airlines and the FAA took drastic action.

Although I live in a free country and have the right to protest and speak up whenever I feel the need to, I do believe that the prudent course of action, in the case of new regulations re "knives on board", is for us to lay low for now.

If we make too much noise and start complaining to airlines and authorities about our pocket knives, then we run the risk of stirring up more controversy and bring more attention to ourselves than we need and facing more unneccesary sanctions.

I feel that in time- maybe a few months or so, that the rules will be relaxed and that we will be able to get back to the pre-war conditions in terms of carrying all our possesions on board an aircraft.

I feel that this will happen, not because the flights will be safer from the threat of a 3 inch pocket knife, but that the entire airline industry will be in a better position to protect us "before" we board a flight- thereby making the issue of small pocket knives a non-issue.

To fight this matter too publicly at this time might backfire on us.

Hope you all had a nice weekend- Have a great week.

Take care,

Neil
 
Hey Will...

You think thats bad....??

An 87 year old Grandmother of 6 was arrested with prohibited weapons as she attempted to board a flight from LAX bound for New Jersey.

I guess what happened an on the ball ,crack security guard stopped her as she passed through the metal detectors and did a random check of her carry on baggage,,actually a small brown purse..

They confiscated a set of hard plastic I think they used the term "Space Age plastic" knitting needles from her purse...

When asked why she was being arrested for having knitting needles, she was bluntly told by FBI agents that "We were afraid you were going to knit an Afgan"

ROTFLMFAO...Hahahahahahahahahaha!!! :)

ttyle

Eric...
 
Originally posted by Brian_Turner


It's private property. Law doesn't matter. That's why they're called FAA REGULATIONS, not laws.

Choose your battles more wisely. This one's not going to go very far. Air travel is not a right guaranteed by the constitution, and arguing against what the general public perceives to be heightened safety and security is not going to do much beyond making them strengthen their views for the time being.

FYI - I'm in complete agreement that the regs are stupid and do nothing to increase security. But read a little Sun Tzu and think about the right time and place to fight this one.
Click to expand...

Sorry I edited your quote. I wasn't referring to airlines just the State Fair issue mentioned in the quote.

I've seen a lot of talk asking us to lay low for a while and see if the airlines relax the regulations, that tactic hasn't been very sucessful. There's a difference between making your opinions known in a rational reasoned way and being argumentative. I'm also not advocating breaking FAA regulations just knee jerk "rules" that have no basis in law. (Private entities are limited as to what rules they can enforce in my state.) Again the key is in how you approach the issue. I try to pick my battles but at some point you have to stand up and say that the arguments being presented aren't logical and reasonable.

Just want to close with this, you do have a reasonable argument and I wish more of our knife people thought in the same manner that you do.
 
I find it insulting that I can't carry even a small slip joint folder, or plier tool knife. I can't even count how many times I boarded a flight with no less than three knives. Knives are part of my daily "Kit". From cutting fingernails, to removing splinters or a hangnail or opening one of those theft proof packages to something as simple as aiding in the preparation of one of those tasty (not) arline treats. Try to spread half frozen cream cheese on that bagel your served, or open a green bannana with that wonderful plastic knife your given and you'll soon discover an excersise in futility. What about when my children require something as simple as their drink straw cut smaller so they can effectively drink from a beverage container without it spilling all over them. Or cut a sandwhich from the airport vendors prior to boarding a flight. How about all the good knives have done. "Knife saves boy with emergency surgury..." crash victims..., It's bad enough that this tragic event took place. So lets take mans oldest tool away from him because he can't be trusted with it. A criminal hell bent on hurting someone doesn't need a gun or a knife to perform his maligned deed. Next we'll have to keep an eye on all of you looking for a box bic pens. Sorry for the rant.
 
I would just like to follow up on my previous comments and to acknowledge the other replies as well.

But, I must reiterate that whatever the rules or regulations are and inasmuch as I totally agree that these are not appropriate- I must reaffirm my position that "timing is everything" and that we should not lose sight of the fact that we have a goal here- and that is to get our "privileges" back- there are no such "rights" under the constitution that calls for the carry of weapons on airlines.

Additionally, it is the airlines and the FAA who determines what a weapon is- not the government.

These privileges can only be recovered by patience and a slow hand a this time. Later on, when the "time" is right- then we can begin to exert pressure in the right places that are required- to get our lives back to where they were before this catastrophe.

Neil
 
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