No pocket knives on the plane

Originally posted by Neil Ostroff

These privileges can only be recovered by patience and a slow hand a this time. Later on, when the "time" is right- then we can begin to exert pressure in the right places that are required- to get our lives back to where they were before this catastrophe.

Neil
Click to expand...

I agree that a militant attitude will do more harm than good but do you really think that we will ever get these privileges back? I don't remember any Federal gun laws being repealed. One incident or another is always used as a "reason" not to allow any change for the better. In fact, they are usually used to tighten the laws. I believe that our efforts at this point should probably be limited to education about the good that knives and tools do. Maybe we should give this a cooling off period but if we wait too much longer, it may be too late to intercept new laws. In fact, I just read that Boston is considering new knife legislation. There's a fine line to be walked here and I'm sure that I'm not politically smart enough to do it. I hope the folks at AKTI are.......
 
Knives and nail clippers are not the only weapons disallowed on planes. but lets take a look at what needs to be looked at. A pen or pencil, keys, stiletto heels,and an entire variety of other things can be used as weapons. An average toddler of about 2 has the strength to completely rip someones windpipe out of their body (it only takes 3lbs of pressure). A plastic knife can be stabbed into your jugglar vein. Stopping the carring of knives on board is not going to stop the bad guys. Just as gun laws dont stop criminals in that catagory. We all know that ONLY law abiding citizens abide laws anyway not criminals. Focus on the criminals and while writing here is good it isnt very effective.Take an extra few minutes to write and call your congressmen and senators. And dont stop there call and write your govenors and Mr.President as well.They do listen (well, sometimes anyway. But they wont know your opinions and views if you dont. As for me I only fly where Greyhound dont go and a boat trip will take too long.Pocket knives SAVE lives. There are too many cases that can be documented to prove so. Outta here for now.
 
federal aviation admin.
they do matter they are the law and the law does matter
i am a pilot and i would like to feel safe
i agree with you on everything else but that
to many wackos flying today
you can live without it for a few hours cant you???
if not you may want to seek professional help
before the flaming starts i also collect and love knives
and am not trying to start anything
 
shovelitis,
Welcome to BFC!

As to your question;

<b>"you can live without it for a few hours cant you???"</b>

Allow me to gently remind you. For the passengers and crew aboard four commercial flights last month, the answer was a definite, inarguable, and permanent "No!"
 
shovelitis,

Let me ask you this: As a pilot, would you feel more comfortable knowing that all the law abiding passengers behind you were not carrying and knives or other potential wepons and only that booger-eating undercover Taliban member in in seat 5A was, OR that 50% of the law abiding passengers were carrying a pocket knife of some type along with that lone (or not so lone) nut-job?

Food for thought.

-Al-
 
shovelitis:
Welcome.
Your point is well taken, but I ask once again: What if there were a medical or other emergency in which only a sharp blade could be used to help or save a life? A lot can happen in a few short hours. (or a couple minutes). Or what if some other mechanical emergency happened and everyone had to abandon the plane, and for some odd reason someone's seatbelt would not unbuckle? Good luck sawing away with a plastic knife.
Jim
 
Originally posted by shovelitis
federal aviation admin.
they do matter they are the law and the law does matter
i am a pilot and i would like to feel safe
i agree with you on everything else but that
to many wackos flying today
you can live without it for a few hours cant you???
if not you may want to seek professional help
before the flaming starts i also collect and love knives
and am not trying to start anything
Click to expand...

I think that you should be able to feel safe. Can I get along without a knife for a little while...maybe unless there is a medical emergency or a crash. The point of carrying a pocketknife or multitool is that it's there IF you need it. If you can't carry it at all then there is no chance to improve your situation or save your life. You're right, there are a lot of nuts out there but they are the ones that will ignore the rules and remain armed. There are plastic knives, ceramic knives and the like. Also, there is no metal detector that can't be defeated. Let's face it, the government cannot protect all of us all of the time. We must take responsibility for our own security. If you are concerned about your safety in the cockpit I suggest that you support reinforced doors or possibly arming the flight crew. But in the end we, the average citizen will be responsible for our own safety.
 
my answer would be noboby getting through the checkpoints
with any weapons
let me also say that i think some of the ruls ARE getting out of hand
i personally think that arming pilots is silly
we have too many things too do other than fight off insane people
i do not know if the air marshalls will take care of this or not
but everyone here has to agree that security MUST be upgraded and enforced that is the key here
as i said before this is not ment to bend anyone out of shape and i appoligize if it offened anyone
but the topic part of this post is that the faa does indeed make and enforce the rules for airports and pilots weather or not they are public or privite the state laws will never supersede federal law
 
shovelitis,

Belated welcome. Don't worry too much about offending anyone here. I know I have a couple of times, and I think as long as you're honest you'll be okay here no matter how on or off your views may be from everyone else. Heck, that's why I've become addicted to this forum -- it's like sitting down in a room with a bunch of close friends. Sure we have arguments here and there, but that's half the fun!

Anyway, back on topic... I don't think arming the pilots would ever be meant as anything more than a deterent or a last possible line of defense. You're right that pilots shouldn't also have to act as security personel. However, perhaps potential terrorists (or your everyday unruly passenger) would think twice about using a passenger airplane for their evil deeds. Couple this with reinforced cockpit doors, and passengers who could lend a hand with whatever knife they may have, and maybe a thing like 9-11 won't happen again. Perhaps this is wishfull thinking, but it's something.

-Al-
 
I heard on the news that the terrorists had carton cutters and "Small ceramic knives." Granted, anything could have been smuggled on by aircraft service personnel (are they tightening security on them?), but does anyone know for certain whether a ceramic knife would get through x-ray or metal detectors? A folder with a steel liner lock (Boker) could be spotted, but a Kyocera ceramic kitchen knife?

And if they can't spot a ceramic knife, or a plastic knife (not so good for slashing, but you could stab someone in the kidney with one), then all this added "security" is just window dressing.

El Al (the Israeli airline) has the right answer: armed marshals on every flight, locked cockpit doors, fewer restrictions on the law-abiding passengers. We can afford the same system.

Just my 2 cents worth ....
 
Well Said Ken!!!

I read a saying somewhere: A knifeless man is a lifeless man.

Might be something to that.


Originally posted by Ken Cook
shovelitis,
Welcome to BFC!

As to your question;

<b>"you can live without it for a few hours cant you???"</b>

Allow me to gently remind you. For the passengers and crew aboard four commercial flights last month, the answer was a definite, inarguable, and permanent "No!"
Click to expand...
 
Shovelitis...
Can you tell us what airline you fly for? Can you also tell me what education a pilot must have to do your job? I'm just wondering - maybe you're just not the best typist around here (and there's no crime in that), but the way you're spelling in your posts makes me kinda nervous about all those buttons and gadgets and labels that I'm sure you have to deal with daily. Please accept my apologies if it's just a case of "keyboarditis" and long hours; there have been a lot of trolls lately, making attacks on sites like Bladeforums, sites that advocate freedom along with personal responsibilities and such...
 
the answer to your questions
northwest airlines route between duluth mn and minneapolis mn to chicago
a four year college degree is required as i took classes in aerospace studies ANDnot in english i am sorry if my typing is not up to your standards
i am not working this week so if you need any more silly questions answered feel free
and by the way what did my post have to do with anything you asked
even if i was not a pilot i would have asked the same thing
 
Shovelitis...

Thanks for giving us some insight from the industry's point of view. One of my relatives used to fly for Valuejet, and of course they $hit the bed, and he was out of work. Now these clowns do what they did, and our airline industry's hurting to the point that my relative's job is again in jeopardy.

This is just a touchy issue all the way around. We, the knife-toting representation of the public have been slapped, pilots and airline workers as a whole have been slapped, and all because of some chicken$hits who couldn't find their a-holes with five hands and ten minutes.

I'm hopeful that some resolution will be reached, as nobody's really happy at the moment. In the meantime, let's try and understand one another's pov's?

Professor.
 
Originally posted by shovelitis
the answer to your questions
northwest airlines route between duluth mn and minneapolis mn to chicago
a four year college degree is required as i took classes in aerospace studies ANDnot in english i am sorry if my typing is not up to your standards
Click to expand...

Shovelitis,

Sorry, for the rude response from a fellow forum member. I, for one, appreciate your comments and point-of-view. The whole point of these forums is to promote open, reasonable discussion. Even when our opinions don't coincide I value the discussion.
 
All right already...
You don't have to apologize for me..
Sorry, Shovelitis. I was serious about my post. Having spent enough time in the Political Forum and Community Forum, I was really wondering if you were possibly just trolling...that's all. The "maybe you need to seek professional help" comment just kinda sparked me up - I had a little run-in with a sheeple and just wasn't sure how to take your post. You find my questions silly, and that's a fair enough opinion - I found that comment kind of silly, so maybe we're even. Again, my apologies for the offense.
Now, which one of those smilies do you use for saying sorry??
 
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