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No Screws In Bolsters?
- Thread starter Jon Brand
- Start date
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
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- 29,205
Screws in bolsters don't bother me at all.
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
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- 799
No issues with them here. Some have nicely executed filework that enhances the knife.
I admit they bother me. On a folder I think it takes away from a beautiful knife and I undestand that it may be easier to make that way. Coop had a great looking knife with beautful damascus that he took a photo of in NY yet the screws really took away from the look.:thumbdn::thumbdn: I don't want to mention names because I do like the makers.
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
I don't mind exposed screws in bolsters at all. Actually, believe they add aesthetically on some knives. An example would be when Don Hanson uses his file-worked hand-made gold screws.
Varying opinions are good though as that's how we end up with such diversity in custom knife designs. :thumbup:
Varying opinions are good though as that's how we end up with such diversity in custom knife designs. :thumbup:
- Joined
- Dec 10, 1998
- Messages
- 4,860
For me it depends on the knife. I think that the screws showing can interrupt the flow of the knife or interrupt the damascus pattern.
If you have a damascus pattern with a centralized design it's best to hold the bolster down with 2 screws, one at each end so you don't disrupt the pattern. I hate it when there is a pivot screw sticking out in the middle of the pattern.
The first pic shows the knife with a centralized pattern. I put the screw in the center of the bolster to have it blend in with the pattern. A pivot screw would have ended up just off center near the top middle of the bolster.
The second pic shows a knife that I think the damascus pattern is interrupted by the pivot screw.
The third pic is a screw together knife with no screws showing.
A lot of it comes down to planning where you want the screws go, screw placement based on the materials and the space available.
It's a lot more work to hide the screws than just have them showing.
If you have a damascus pattern with a centralized design it's best to hold the bolster down with 2 screws, one at each end so you don't disrupt the pattern. I hate it when there is a pivot screw sticking out in the middle of the pattern.
The first pic shows the knife with a centralized pattern. I put the screw in the center of the bolster to have it blend in with the pattern. A pivot screw would have ended up just off center near the top middle of the bolster.
The second pic shows a knife that I think the damascus pattern is interrupted by the pivot screw.
The third pic is a screw together knife with no screws showing.
A lot of it comes down to planning where you want the screws go, screw placement based on the materials and the space available.
It's a lot more work to hide the screws than just have them showing.
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
Some collectors (one, I know actually) prefer that if screws are used for the "slots" to aligned or at same angles/position.
How do you feel about that?
Makers, what problems/issues does trying to line up the screw slots cause if any?
How do you feel about that?
Makers, what problems/issues does trying to line up the screw slots cause if any?
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2002
- Messages
- 12,297
I actually like the screws showing, as long as they are small.
Indexing the slots is cool but adds time and expense to the piece.
I don't do it and have only had one guy mention it in 14 years,
probably the same gent you speak of, Kevin
Indexing the slots is cool but adds time and expense to the piece.
I don't do it and have only had one guy mention it in 14 years,
probably the same gent you speak of, Kevin
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2001
- Messages
- 12,336
Bolsters without screws add a level of complexity and intrigue. (How DID he do that...?)
Examples:
This one is crazy. It's got them camouflaged:
I don't mind screws. I like them to be well-placed. We have seen examples that have us scratching our heads.
My pet peave with screwed bolsters and handle scales is NOT the screws. It's the bores.
Often I see makers that minimize the bore hole by leaving it sharp and unfinished. Any machinist knows that a small chamfer on the top of a bore is a finished hole. Leaving the edges sharp simply leaves them, to me, unfinished. You can't hide it, so make it finished.
When I was doing kits I was very cognizant of this, and thought the pronounced chamfer actually added to the 'look'.
Good topic, Jon. Chuck K, I know of who you speak.
Coop
Examples:
This one is crazy. It's got them camouflaged:
I don't mind screws. I like them to be well-placed. We have seen examples that have us scratching our heads.
My pet peave with screwed bolsters and handle scales is NOT the screws. It's the bores.
Often I see makers that minimize the bore hole by leaving it sharp and unfinished. Any machinist knows that a small chamfer on the top of a bore is a finished hole. Leaving the edges sharp simply leaves them, to me, unfinished. You can't hide it, so make it finished.
When I was doing kits I was very cognizant of this, and thought the pronounced chamfer actually added to the 'look'.
Good topic, Jon. Chuck K, I know of who you speak.
Coop
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
- Messages
- 104
I am one that believes that for a fine knife to have a finished look slotted screws must be timed. I don't particularly like allen or torex screws, but will use them on certain knives. I just like the looks of a timed slotted screw better. Pick up a Holland and Holland or Purdy shotgun and look for a torex screw or untimed slotted screw. They take a little more time, but to me give the knife a finished look that isn't there if the screws are pointing all different directions.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 1998
- Messages
- 4,860
It's called indexing your screws and it can be tedious.
This involves countersinking for your screw head a certain depth. Screwing the bolster or handle material to your liner and seeing where the slot lines up. Then unscrewing it and countersinking a little more till you get the screw slot lined up how you like it. It gets to be a PITA when doing this for 6-8 screws.
Or you can use a longer than needed screw,grind the slot off, tighten the screw using the threads through the back side of the liner and then draw in the line where you want the screw slot to be. Unscrew the screw and cut in a new slot by hand.
They don't always line up the same because you might apply more pressure at one time or another. And if using gold screws if you tighten too much they can stretch throwing the slot off.
What are your thoughts on the screw heads being flush with the surface of the handle material or bolster versus being countersunk way too deep?
Here's one I did with the screws indexed.
This involves countersinking for your screw head a certain depth. Screwing the bolster or handle material to your liner and seeing where the slot lines up. Then unscrewing it and countersinking a little more till you get the screw slot lined up how you like it. It gets to be a PITA when doing this for 6-8 screws.
Or you can use a longer than needed screw,grind the slot off, tighten the screw using the threads through the back side of the liner and then draw in the line where you want the screw slot to be. Unscrew the screw and cut in a new slot by hand.
They don't always line up the same because you might apply more pressure at one time or another. And if using gold screws if you tighten too much they can stretch throwing the slot off.
What are your thoughts on the screw heads being flush with the surface of the handle material or bolster versus being countersunk way too deep?
Here's one I did with the screws indexed.
I don't mind screws unless they catch your eye because they are in contrast to the design or flow o the knife.
I like the look of embellished screws that add to the overall look/fit finish of the knife.
There are a lot of simple patterns that make "indexing" them unnecessary.
It is very common to see them on engraved guns and knives.
Peter
I like the look of embellished screws that add to the overall look/fit finish of the knife.
There are a lot of simple patterns that make "indexing" them unnecessary.
It is very common to see them on engraved guns and knives.
Peter
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 27,877
As with any design consideration with a knife, if screws are poorly thought out or executed, then I will not like them. However, I have neither a black nor white general answer to the question at hand.
Guys like Don and Chuck make fasteners work because their design is incorporated into the knife using embellishment.
Likewise, indexed slotted fasteners show a level of consideration and skill that can add to a knife's look.
Torx fasteners disallow indexing for the most part, and to me are an easy way out. Actually, except for knives which are meant to be taken apart for cleaning, I'd prefer to never see them used to build a custom knife. Unless the design incorporates their mass produced, mechanical nature, such as the recent work of Tim Galyean, that is. The mechanical look does appeal to many in this age of 'tactical' design. Maybe because guns use so many fasteners. I don't really know.
Similarly, bolsters which are not dovetailed bother me, as I think that dove tailing not only makes a knife look better, but reconfirm the importance and significance of a bolster in the first place.
If a knife is not made to be taken apart, then I would prefer to see pins holding them together, since I believe that assembling a knife in such a way is not only more permanent, but is more difficult to do well. It shows that the maker is confident in their skills assembling a knife so that it won't come loose down the road. Which, for a lot of custom knives, would never happen anyway, as they are not likely to be used. But if they are, they should easily last a lifetime or two.
Guys like Don and Chuck make fasteners work because their design is incorporated into the knife using embellishment.
Likewise, indexed slotted fasteners show a level of consideration and skill that can add to a knife's look.
Torx fasteners disallow indexing for the most part, and to me are an easy way out. Actually, except for knives which are meant to be taken apart for cleaning, I'd prefer to never see them used to build a custom knife. Unless the design incorporates their mass produced, mechanical nature, such as the recent work of Tim Galyean, that is. The mechanical look does appeal to many in this age of 'tactical' design. Maybe because guns use so many fasteners. I don't really know.
Similarly, bolsters which are not dovetailed bother me, as I think that dove tailing not only makes a knife look better, but reconfirm the importance and significance of a bolster in the first place.
If a knife is not made to be taken apart, then I would prefer to see pins holding them together, since I believe that assembling a knife in such a way is not only more permanent, but is more difficult to do well. It shows that the maker is confident in their skills assembling a knife so that it won't come loose down the road. Which, for a lot of custom knives, would never happen anyway, as they are not likely to be used. But if they are, they should easily last a lifetime or two.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
- Messages
- 104
There are obviously a lot of ways to index the screws, some of them time consuming and some of them dictated by the material being used such as gold or silver screws. I use the Big Bag of Screws method. Probably kind of pricey if using Gold but works great with stainless screws. With the above knife probably less than half of the 14 screws had to be worked with to line up.
I have found that customers will often comment favorably about the extra work involved on knives that have timed screws and the classic look. They almost never comment one way or the other if they are not timed or are socket type.
The slotted screws that are embellished in some way either with engraving or file-work still have slots that need to be dealt with if you are going to that much work on the rest of the knife.
The reason I do it is because I like it done that way but some times I wish I didn't like it as much as I do. I don't think I'd like it at all on gold screws.
I have found that customers will often comment favorably about the extra work involved on knives that have timed screws and the classic look. They almost never comment one way or the other if they are not timed or are socket type.
The slotted screws that are embellished in some way either with engraving or file-work still have slots that need to be dealt with if you are going to that much work on the rest of the knife.
The reason I do it is because I like it done that way but some times I wish I didn't like it as much as I do.
I don't think I'd like it at all on gold screws.
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2003
- Messages
- 12,554
Indexing the slots is cool but adds time and expense to the piece.
I don't do it and have only had one guy mention it in 14 years,
probably the same gent you speak of, Kevin
:thumbup:
:thumbup:Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2003
- Messages
- 2,498
Steve Lindsay the legendary engraver goes to great lengths
to avoid exposed pins and pivot pins in the bolsters that
sometimes interfere with engraving designs or inlays.
Steve designed several new folder designs and mechanisms.
These are screw-together folders with all screws and pins hidden.
Reaching inside the bottom edge of the knife accesses the screws.
A locking mechanism he designed is also new, thanks in part to
knifemaker Barry Trindle. The lock bar is hidden inside, making
the top edge of the knife completely engravable.
Here is one of his AMAZING creations.
Folding knives in this series of his made in the 90s, every one of
them many months in the making, sell for around $100,000....
All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
From my book "... Custom Folding knives"
to avoid exposed pins and pivot pins in the bolsters that
sometimes interfere with engraving designs or inlays.
Steve designed several new folder designs and mechanisms.
These are screw-together folders with all screws and pins hidden.
Reaching inside the bottom edge of the knife accesses the screws.
A locking mechanism he designed is also new, thanks in part to
knifemaker Barry Trindle. The lock bar is hidden inside, making
the top edge of the knife completely engravable.
Here is one of his AMAZING creations.
Folding knives in this series of his made in the 90s, every one of
them many months in the making, sell for around $100,000....
All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
From my book "... Custom Folding knives"
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