No shelter from "my little friend" (MG42)

First bit on topic - get some info about submachine gunners in Finland
Good link is e.g. this:
http://www.guns.connect.fi/gow/suomi1.html
Sometimes a single Finnish submachine gunner against a hundred Russians. At other times one gunner and a couple of magazine-filling assistants struggled against a full infantry company - 200 Russians - killing almost half of their troop and wounding many others. Some Finnish writers of war and remembrance novels say they have given too small numbers of Killed In Action enemy soldiers in their books because "nobody can believe my eye-witness' claim that one submachine gunner can slaughter eighty-five enemy soldiers during a skirmish lasting less than thirty minutes"..! Harsh facts are sometimes more incredible than fictions of novel writers.
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ABTOMAT-47 said:
It would have been interesting to see how things worked out if they hadn't taken on the USSR.
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What would happen? USSR would invade Europe. Hitler attacked them about two weeks before planned Soviet invasions should take place.
Just few facts:

There was trained one million (yes, one MILLION) USSR paratroopers.

Mountain army divisions ready to invade Romania oil fields (main source for Third Reich's Germany) operating in or near Carpathia mountains.

BT tanks - wheel equipped tank capable of high speeds on highways. In that time there was not a one kilometer of highways in USSR which would made it capable for anything else than onslaught on western europe.

Cleaning the paths in Stalin's line (bigger, deeper and more heavily fortfied version of Maginot line, except you cannot go around it) and dismounting of guns from fortresses to arm other forces (Russian-Finnish war is good example what fortified defend zones can do to enemy progress).


Stalin was getting ready for attack on the Europe. Hitler just did counter attack literally weeks before.
 
Hmmm...... I've done an awful lot of reading on WWII history, and have never heard even a rumor of a proposed invasion of Europe by the Soviets.
Although the Russians had huge numbers of men under arms, their training, proficiency, and equipment was suspect.
At war's beginning, Soviet armor was greatly inferior to the German stuff, and the air force was essentially a joke in comparison to the Luftwaffe. (Not the case later in the war, of course)

The primary advantage would have been manpower, but it's difficult to imagine that even huge numbers of troops could have prevailed in an invasion scenario without air superiority and facing vastly superior armor forces.

I don't imagine Hitler would have sat idly by while the Russians made, let's say, a limited power grab into the Balkans.
 
The point was to cut off German's oil (petrol) source along with main attack to western europe (in fact Germany (+Italy) itself as there weren't any other significant powers left).
BTW BT tanks were built just for the purpose of Soviet variant of Blitzkrieg.
 
mwerner said:
Hmmm...... I've done an awful lot of reading on WWII history, and have never heard even a rumor of a proposed invasion of Europe by the Soviets.
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+1. Never even heard a rumor of this in all that I've read on WWII.
I think it's someone trying to excuse Hitlers actions with disinformation.
 
Mike Hull said:
+1. Never even heard a rumor of this in all that I've read on WWII.
I think it's someone trying to excuse Hitlers actions with disinformation.
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Yep, this is all news to me as well. Read numerous books in high school and college and never heard mention of a possible Soviet invasion.
 
Read numerous books in high school and college
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Would those be the same history books that are now so watered down our graduates think war is NEVER necessary, and that the 2nd Amendment was actually meant to protect the military? :rolleyes:

Outside of high school there are many that say Hitler invaded Russia not only b/c he was bull headed and full of steam, but because he feared Russia would attack.

After all, Hitler hated the Russians so badly there was no reason for them to think they would NOT be next.

Also, keep in mind the gentleman posting is located in the CZech Republic. I would bet money their history books are written differently than ours.

Prague is only about 1,000 miles as the crow flies to Moscow.
 
If hitler didn't invade Russia when he did, he would've turned all his force on Great Britian. Invaded it, occupied it and then launched Operation Barbarossa. Maybe complete with winter coats and boots.
 
Terry Newton said:
Would those be the same history books that are now so watered down our graduates think war is NEVER necessary, and that the 2nd Amendment was actually meant to protect the military? :rolleyes:

Outside of high school there are many that say Hitler invaded Russia not only b/c he was bull headed and full of steam, but because he feared Russia would attack.

After all, Hitler hated the Russians so badly there was no reason for them to think they would NOT be next.

Also, keep in mind the gentleman posting is located in the CZech Republic. I would bet money their history books are written differently than ours.

Prague is only about 1,000 miles as the crow flies to Moscow.
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Not quite... It was books that I purchased and picked from the library to satisfy my own interest.

I would love to see history books from "over there"; especially if they give different versions for Hitlers motivations. I would like to see any TV shows that talk about it. Heck... I'd like to see anything that showed what huugh mentioned. Just like John Travolta dying yesterday; I tend not to believe it until I see it somewhere else too.
 
First:
DO remember countries east of Iron Curtain were ruled by USSR. Offical historicians (err, propaganda) stated for nearly 50 years the peaceful USSR was attacked by aggresive Germany. In spirit of this were officially historical books written and this was taught on schools.

In fact at elemantary and high schools there isn't much of newest history taught. Max few chapters to WWII and even less to following Cold war and later history.
Study of history at the universities may be somewhat different but it is specialized not something what common people learn as a part of basic education.

air force was essentially a joke in comparison to the Luftwaffe
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Not completly, problem was most of USSR air forces was dislocated near the west border (guess why) and most of aircrafts were destroyed on airports before they took off. Also in dogfights they weren't succseful as they were mainly trained for attacking surface targets.

Ebbtide said:
If hitler didn't invade Russia when he did, he would've turned all his force on Great Britian. Invaded it, occupied it and then launched Operation Barbarossa. Maybe complete with winter coats and boots.
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THAT IS CORRECT!
Except if the Germans invaded UK it would be best time to "liberate" whole Europe by USSR...
Remember the USSR supported Germans to the very last moment (Molotov-Ribbentrop pact). It was very useful for Stalin to stay off the fights in Europe. Let Hitler dominate it, and after he moves his forces to UK easily conquer occupied lands where only defence would be guards at prison and concetration camps, police squads and gestapo officiers.

(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_tank -> there were made for blitzkrieg attacks, e.g. Soviet occupation of Poland is good example;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_line
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhukov -> Zhukov's strategy in war in Manchukuo was to pretend fortification and then suddenly attack (night moves of army, false informations for enemy recon etc.), same was supposed to be used at the USSR-German border in occupied Poland (Zhukov's plan of preventive attack from 15th May 1941)


BTW if you can read Czech here e.g. here:
http://www.nkp.cz/seminar/22_6_1941.htm
Especially names are important (V. Danilov, M. Melťuchov, V. Něvežin, B. Sokolov a J. Afanasjev). Also Viktor Suvorov. Especially for the concrete documents mentioned (not only by him, like e.g. Mobilization order No. 25 from 25th February 1941 when more than one million men were mobilized)

http://www.valka.cz/newdesign/v900/clanek.php?id=10346


You can find lot of links when googlin names above + stalin or hitler or barbarossa
)
 
When a person wants to know the truth they can find it. The resources are out there.

History is ALWAYS written by someone that is biased.
 
Interesting video, the real difference between this weapons performance here is the shooters ability, skill and experience. Take a German infantry man in the 40s who was expirenced with this weapon and it will sing death. The people here are pedestrian users and not placed in a life or death situation.

Nice video, hate to feed and clean that beast.....much like my two children. :D
 
DBob, there is an interview with a German MGunner that pops up on The Military Channel.
I want to say the program titled WW2, the one with lots of color footage.
Interesting stuff. He said that they really had to think about conserving ammo, the beast would eat ammo so fast. Especially when the gunners were scared, anxious and excited.
For example during one of the Russian human wave assaults.
More bodies coming up the hill than bullets going down the hill was the plan. Once the MG's ran dry the chances were better.

History is written by the winners & the losers have their own version too.
From what I've read, Japanese textbooks don't mention much about the battle of Nanking...the battle the winners called "The Rape of Nanking"
 
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