Nominations for Customs and Handmade Knives Moderator

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Kevin (and others),

We JUST had a situation where things got 'broke' and it took two now-locked threads, and a ton of negative energy to attempt to resolve it. In the aftershock we lost Les Robertson, and mods and members got all pissed. As they should be.

The 'trouble' (as perceived ) was that a non-involved Supermod came in to rectify what he felt was a wrongdoing in an unmoderated forum.

It is possible, that had there been an active C&H mod around his willingness to step in may not have occurred.

A good moderator is transparent, but NOT invisible.

Did I get that right?

Coop
 
SharpByCoop said:
Kevin (and others),

We JUST had a situation where things got 'broke' and it took two now-locked threads, and a ton of negative energy to attempt to resolve it. In the aftershock we lost Les Robertson, and mods and members got all pissed. As they should be.

The 'trouble' (as perceived ) was that a non-involved Supermod came in to rectify what he felt was a wrongdoing in an unmoderated forum.

It is possible, that had there been an active C&H mod around his willingness to step in may not have occurred.

A good moderator is transparent, but NOT invisible.

Did I get that right?

Coop
Click to expand...

I think you just made the case.
 
Coop,
Well said! A moderator here might have diffused that situation and advocated (if needed) for the established members here.
David
 
Advocating for an established member is tantamount to taking sides - something that one would think a moderator should NOT do.
 
SharpByCoop said:
Kevin (and others),

We JUST had a situation where things got 'broke' and it took two now-locked threads, and a ton of negative energy to attempt to resolve it. In the aftershock we lost Les Robertson, and mods and members got all pissed. As they should be.

The 'trouble' (as perceived ) was that a non-involved Supermod came in to rectify what he felt was a wrongdoing in an unmoderated forum.

It is possible, that had there been an active C&H mod around his willingness to step in may not have occurred.

A good moderator is transparent, but NOT invisible.

Did I get that right?

Coop
Click to expand...

Possible, but I doubt it.
In any case I expect in a few days all will be forgotten.

Anyway, you, Lorien, definitely Paul would all make fine moderators, not so sure about some of the other names thrown out.
 
betzner said:
Advocating for an established member is tantamount to taking sides - something that one would think a moderator should NOT do.
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I think that depends on the situation. If another member is being attacked by another or otherwise pushed into a corner/abused, I would hope the mods here would stick up for the person and do something (positive that they would). And an advocate is defined as 'a person who publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy'. That last bit of that seems to describe a lot of what a mod does.
 
Gentlemen, I hesitate to intrude upon your discussion as I don't want to appear to be attempting to abrogate the right of assembly, but may I just offer the following thoughts?

It seems that given the relatively laissez-faire moderation that has been ongoing here since Gus and I left several years ago, that issues rising to the level of requiring active moderation are relatively rare. At least by the accounts I am reading.

Assuming that to be the case, it shouldn't be too much of an issue to do one of a few things to avoid problems going forward. (I have no idea as to whether Spark is considering or intends to make any changes to the staff or not, so I am not holding back anything from you.)

Okay, so, assuming that an issue arises that you feel requires addressing, you can take the following steps:

1. You can email or PM the offending party to either edit or otherwise stand down from the action causing the issue. If you know them well enough you can call them.

2. You can report the matter with your own summary of the issue by using the report button for the post in question. (STeven has already advised me that that's not his preferred method, or hasn't been in the past, but was willing to make certain concessions in this regard.)

3. You can email or PM a moderator or super moderator of your choosing to discuss or possibly intervene in the issue.

If these instances are indeed so rare as to be barely noticeable blips on the radar, not much will require changing going forward imho.

The donnybrook that took place the other day was regrettable but I will say that it's not a matter of you against the moderation staff. We understand that certain issues required examination and that examination still continues. That said, I and other moderators, like Gus, for one, are custom knife collectors and enthusiasts just like yourselves, and also have very strong personal ties to many makers built up over several years. We hear you and we care.

My point is, don't feel that we aren't there for you when you need us. Mistakes can and will be made but if we work together there's no need for any protracted sense of alienation.

Just wanted to get that off my chest and will now get out of the way of your further discussion unless someone has a question or matter they would like me to address.
 
If Spark and his mods feel that a moderator specific to this forum is necessary, I wouldn't disagree with them.
If my brethren here feel that I could do that job, and I'm called upon to do it, then I will- to the best of my abilities, at any rate.
I owe this forum an awful lot, (more than I can say) and welcome opportunities to give back to it.
I consider it a great honor to even be mentioned as a potential candidate regardless of how this all pans out.
 
Elliott, thank you for your very thoughtful and informative post above. I still believe we do a pretty good job of self moderation most of the time. It was good of you to lay out the avenues we can use in case we feel we do need help.

I probably have as big an ego as anyone here, and my temper is the stuff legends are made of....but in almost 80 years (I'm a slow learner), I have found that when my flare goes off that if I will let it burn quietly for a while and then type or say what's on my mind it is generally more intelligent and received more gracefully by my peers. I didn't invent that system so all of you feel free to use it as well.

Back to the topic at hand. If we do get another,any,new or whatever moderator/moderators I don't think their presence will alter my approach one bit. I also think that perhaps if everyone adopted a similar approach things would remain smooth as they are now.

This is a GOOD place and it will remain a good place in spite of, or because of, and I intend to enjoy every minute I have left of it.:)

Paul
 
I was under the impression that the forum should be about the community. I never considered Les anything but good, for his experience and contributions to sometimes difficult conversations. In any event, he always provided a perspective that reflected that he knew the business of knives. And, for how many years? The event that got him banned was incident related.
To me, this brings up the question, what is the purpose of this subforum? And, who should it serve? I cannot figure how Les being banned will benefit this group positively, except it warns those of us who are prone to argue our points. Nor should we argue or castigate a moderator.
This control does stifle freedom of speech, but i suppose it is aimed at those that take the opportunity to ridicule another's positions. If we took a poll i would bet Les would be welcomed back, but as is clear, this forum isnt the property of the collective..
David
 
I take a few days off and all heck breaks loose.

Lorien & Coop would be first rate choices, imho.
 
SharpByCoop said:
Kevin (and others),

We JUST had a situation where things got 'broke' and it took two now-locked threads, and a ton of negative energy to attempt to resolve it. In the aftershock we lost Les Robertson, and mods and members got all pissed. As they should be.

The 'trouble' (as perceived ) was that a non-involved Supermod came in to rectify what he felt was a wrongdoing in an unmoderated forum.

It is possible, that had there been an active C&H mod around his willingness to step in may not have occurred.

A good moderator is transparent, but NOT invisible.

Did I get that right?

Coop
Click to expand...

I am in general agreement with the above. I appreciate Elliot's comments and generally agree (as I said before) that we do a pretty good job for the most part looking after ourselves. The problem with the 'dial 911 in case of emergency approach' is that the responding Mod may or may not be someone familiar with either the subject matter or the particular dynamics of this subforum. Having a member of this particular community as a "red" mod - someone who has already invested a significant amount of time over a lond period of time - is preferable in that respect, IMO. And I don't really see a down side. Does anyone else? I'm not sure what "side" would be taken in appointing someone like Coop as a mod. I certainly CAN think of some names that would engage that type of concern.
 
RogerP said:
I am in general agreement with the above. I appreciate Elliot's comments and generally agree (as I said before) that we do a pretty good job for the most part looking after ourselves. The problem with the 'dial 911 in case of emergency approach' is that the responding Mod may or may not be someone familiar with either the subject matter or the particular dynamics of this subforum. Having a member of this particular community as a "red" mod - someone who has already invested a significant amount of time over a lond period of time - is preferable in that respect, IMO. And I don't really see a down side. Does anyone else? I'm not sure what "side" would be taken in appointing someone like Coop as a mod. I certainly CAN think of some names that would engage that type of concern.
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Roger, I am mostly in agreement with this last post you made. A "red"mod from the home team might be a really good thing.
IF there is an added mod or a replacement, I think you idea has merit, and for the reasons you expressed.

Paul
 
RogerP said:
Having a member of this particular community as a "red" mod - someone who has already invested a significant amount of time over a lond period of time - is preferable in that respect, IMO.
Click to expand...

If a change is needed, I think Roger hit the nail on the head.

- Joe
 
^^^ And I concur. I also respectfully decline any nominations. Sorry.

Although I DO have a longterm relationship with this forum, I'd prefer to stand aside. Because my business is so far-reaching, it may have implications which would be in conflict, or appear so.

Thank you.

Lorien is a GREAT choice. That said, there may be members who feel THEY would be fairly suited to this task, but their names haven't surfaced, or they feel it's too 'arrogant' to post this in public.

How can we allow for this? I find the that when someone volunteers willingly, they are apt to do a good job.

Point person? Comittee? Let's discuss.

Coop
 
Coop's point about volunteers is a good one - if and when the time comes, that is certainly a viable path.

But it needn't be the only path. Sometimes good volunteers need volunteering. :) If he were so inclined, a guy like Joe R. (Canineforge) would make an excellent choice. Tons of experience in the field; long standing member; regular participant, and someone who consistently presents a very reasonable and even tone on the forums notwithstanding his clear passion for the subject matter.
 
I don't think a visable mod is nessary and I believe it could take away a lot from this forum. There are some strong personalities here that might get butt hurt with constant moderation. I think we would lose a lot of people and hashed out threads if we had someone here slapping wrists. C&H does not need wrist slapping and prodding from a mod. It seldem needs someone to step in and say "boys shake hands and agree to disagree" if you want to keep it in the current state.


That said I seldom vist these days because there is a bit of a polarization in what is posted. maybe you need to think about what you want for the future...

Intelligent discussion is great. But I always came here to see knife porn. And up and coming makers that don't fit with strong personalities here. people are afraid to post their stuff. Maybe many makers don't want to post their work. Lots to concider here. I'll say that when they had moderation I saw some great stuff here. Not so much anymore.

Just my $.02 this forum should be the forefront of custom knives. A spot light for everything hand made. I'm just not feeling it these days.
 
petah said:
I don't think a visable mod is nessary and I believe it could take away a lot from this forum. There are some strong personalities here that might get butt hurt with constant moderation. I think we would lose a lot of people and hashed out threads if we had someone here slapping wrists. C&H does not need wrist slapping and prodding from a mod. It seldem needs someone to step in and say "boys shake hands and agree to disagree" if you want to keep it in the current state.
Click to expand...

petah - I dont think effective moderation need remotely be `constant`, nor involve frequent wrist slapping or prodding. It probably is needed in those relatively infrequent occasions when things go far awry. IMO, it would be better to have someone who is already here, so to speak, to either make a proactive interjection or an informed response to a report. I don`t envision the role of mod as an omnipresent courtesy nanny sitting on top of every thread. Grown ups should be afforded the latitute for frank expression. Someone who has participated here for years probably gets that.
 
Folks I feel very much to blame here

It is well known that STeven and I and a certain moderator do not get along and simply put what happened the other day was a clear case of someone throwing gas on a fire.

My dear friend STeven made a blunt comment about a knife to a very well liked, respected and talented member of this forum. The regulars here know STevens style and I believe the maker in question even took it with a grain of salt. Not meaning to say he dismissed STeven's critique but I think he is aware of his posting style and did not take great offense. I do not mean to speak for anyone and please forgive me for offering up my opinion. What I am trying to say is no matter what the comment of that particular mod would have been it would have received the same outcome from Steven or I. The disdain for all parties involved had just escalated to that.


The aftermath is the loss of Les which I feel partially responsible for and for that I am sorry. The wrecking of a great makes thread which he did not deserve.

Hopefully that is all in the past, and although all parties besides myself that have been nominated would be great choices....and I would whole heartidly welcome and respect (I consider them all friends)any of them I feel the reg moderators do a fine job.

This is just my way of saying sorry for my part in this mess
 
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