Non cast pliers?

Multitaskertools makes one heck of a tool and when the EDC version hits it's going to be one heck of a tool to contend with. Billet heads are the wave of the future.
 
cdf said:
Vic. Swisstools have been refined three times , culminating in the 2005 version . The stubby jaws are less fracture prone . My contention that they break less often is based on the fact that pics of broken Vic. Swisstool pliers are rare . One reported incident , has had the associated picture reposted all over the internet .

Un scientific , but possibly significant .

Chris
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Possibly significant, of course, but still anecdotal. There are too many other plausible reasons for this, like perhaps 10-20 times more Leathermen than Swisstools are sold, or maybe Leatherman owners whose tools break are more surprised than Swisstool users, who kind of expect that to happen :D :D (Duck! Run!! ). Point is, if there is hard data, I long to see it.
 
znapschatz said:
Possibly significant, of course, but still anecdotal. There are too many other plausible reasons for this, like perhaps 10-20 times more Leathermen than Swisstools are sold, or maybe Leatherman owners whose tools break are more surprised than Swisstool users, who kind of expect that to happen :D :D (Duck! Run!! ). Point is, if there is hard data, I long to see it.
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Good points there. Well some of 'em. On the selling, don't know how to compare that, but I don't think anyone expects his multitool to break unless it's an el cheapo.

Anyway now I'm sorry as hell that I didn't take pics when I saw those tools broke. But then again I doubt that there was even time to take the pics.
On the other hand, while Leatherman tools are more known to break, Swisstools have been reported to bend somehow. The fact is that it's not exactly the kind of usage any pliers would be expected to do, but it can also be questioned if LM have been used too hard.

And to that duck and run comments - dude I'm a Vic fan, and LM rarely manages to make me say "OK now that is sth worth getting no matter what", but if ppl can't take a comment then what's the point?
so my :thumbup: to you for having the stones to say what you think.
 
How does billet do up against forged? I thought it was generally inferior in strength, but cheaper to do small runs, compared to forging.
 
Looking forward to that Multitasker EDC. I absolutely loathe the quality of leathermans, and recent tools from most manufacturers aren't much better. My most solid tools are all ones that are nearly a decade old. I have an original Schrade Tough Tool that's a tank, and an early SOG powerlock that is a beast in its own right. Even my first-run Gerber Legend is built better than 90% of the crap put out today.
 
Multitaskertools said:
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EDC version will be out before the end of the year
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Do you have photos of your EDC version to post on Bladeforums? What tools will it contain? Any other changes?

Here's a review of the M16/M4/AR15 version that someone posted on Bladeforums:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=667306
 
That likes like quite a multitool. I'd consider it if I owned an AR15.

I'm intrigued by the possibility of an EDC version. It looks like you really put a lot of thought into it, which isn't as common as it should be in a multitool.

One suggestion is for the knife blade to be a v-ground non-tanto.
 
shecky said:
How does billet do up against forged? I thought it was generally inferior in strength, but cheaper to do small runs, compared to forging.
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Hi,

Yes "billet" is very inferior to any finished piece of iron or steel. Billet is one form of material that is cast into raw blanks, either flats or rounds, before it is rolled into what ever desired shape for the finished product, (others being blooms and beams). As a material it is porous and well, "cheesey" in cross-section. The mechanical working, by rolling, of a billet into to shape gives the steel it's density and uniformity of shape.

You can buy flats, rounds, hexes, tubes, squares, angles, and plate. But you can't buy a billet. Nor would you want to. Unless you have a rolling mill to finish it out into shapes.

Sorry, it's a peeve of mine.

dalee
 
dalee100 said:
Hi,

Yes "billet" is very inferior to any finished piece of iron or steel. Billet is one form of material that is cast into raw blanks, either flats or rounds, before it is rolled into what ever desired shape for the finished product, (others being blooms and beams). As a material it is porous and well, "cheesey" in cross-section. The mechanical working, by rolling, of a billet into to shape gives the steel it's density and uniformity of shape.

You can buy flats, rounds, hexes, tubes, squares, angles, and plate. But you can't buy a billet. Nor would you want to. Unless you have a rolling mill to finish it out into shapes.

Sorry, it's a peeve of mine.

dalee
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Maybe we have different interpretations of billet - I take it to mean bar stock.

Granted it's not the equal of forged but I'll put our pliers up against any cast pliers out there.

cncbilletpliersforgen2m.jpg
 
You guys are not talking about the same "billet". In steel industry a billet is a semi finished product of a steel mill, which is processed into --among other things-- bar stock.
http://www.webcitation.org/5nzO7lLPF

Because bar stock is made out of billet, people often use billet as shorthand for bar stock.

To avoid confusion, I suggest for future runs you use the term "bar stock" instead.
 
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What metal is cast into at the foundry prior to rolling is an ingot.

A billet is a rolled piece of metal that the final product is machined out of. It can mean the whole piece of bar stock, or the cut-to-size pieces the final product is made from.

Forging is NOT superior to a billet-machined piece, in a modern heat treat environment. Forging was originally used to create a metal grain structure aligned along a given axis top give strength over what a cast piece would give, and then heat treated (quenched and tempered).

A stock removal method will produce an equal product, because the modern heat treat recipes (versus hand quenching in water or oils, heating in the forge, and tempering), breaks down the grain structure in the machined product and then reforms it with larger, aligned crystals.

Depending on how much machining has to be done, starting with a forged billet may be more or less cost effective than a rolled billet.
 
cdf said:
Neither Gerber nor SOG are drop forged . I cant think of any offhand that are . I would dream of joint venture by Kline and Victorinox - a Spirit with drop forged jaws .
Sad fact is multi pliers are only good for the most casual of use . You are probably better off with a SAK , and a pair of Klines in the back pocket .

Of existing multi's , the one with the best record on jaw breakage is the Vic. Swisstool .

Chris
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i agree with you about the swisstool from my experience. i have owned many multi tools and currently own several. my swisstool i bought in 1998 (old pliers setup) has seen the most use and abuse. i broke my leatherman surge pliers 2 weeks after purchase and my good friend is on his 3rd wave in as many years. IMO the swisstool feels the most solid in hand and fit and finish is the best. also, it is one of the cheapest full size multi tools.
 
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