Non-GEC Nailbreakers

N

NoNameNomad

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Apr 25, 2011
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This thread is not meant to bash any maker whatsoever I will state right off the bat.

Anyways, we all hear how some of GEC's knives can be considered nailbreakers, but as I was browsing through some of my usual dealer sites looking at a variety of makers knives, I came across of review of a knife that shall go unnamed by a maker that shall go unnamed (because I don't know enough about them to want to comment on them if you're wondering why I leave them unnamed). A single solitary review, and it praised the knife to some extent but called it a nailbreaker.

Reading thing I thought to myself that I rarely (or perhaps never, I can't recall, shoddy memory) ever hear that term to refer to knives that are not made by GEC. It got me wondering, have any of you dealt with non-GEC knvies that you consider nailbreakers? Nails need not have actually been broken, but I'm certainly referring to difficult to open knives here, rather than just fairly stiff springs. Although broken nails is certainly more in line with the point of the thread;)

Again while it is necessary for models and makers to be named if you've experienced this problem, none of this is meant to point out makers in order to bash them or anything like that, but you can't have a thread like this without naming names. Despite the fact that I avoided naming names earlier. You ignore that fact though:cool:
 
My strongest pull came from Queen. Burke/Queen grandad barlow collab. It is a bear trap! I love it, but have to open it with respect. ( I also have a weak pull from them. Three bladed Pardue canoe has three different pulls, way too soft, not firm enough, and perfect near nail breaker).

None of my GEC are nailbreakers for me. I handed one to my friend to check out. He is a 6'4" Sheriff, Search and Rescue and former swat. He tore his thumb nail, and said it was impossible to open. I took it and opened it with my pinky nail.

I don't consider my nails tough at all.

Just depends on the person too! My GEC also have softened up considerably with a flush, and oiling, and opening a lot. Perfect pulls!

The harder pulls seems to be on the earlier GEC made knives. Which is why I really like them!

I have not tried too many of the newer knives.
 
For me personally, I like a strong/stiff pull that is what brought me to purchase my first GEC, my En Aubrac Laguiole is much stiffer and stronger than my GEC #54 moose & what I was carrying prior to my first GEC, my old Camillus TL-29 has strong/stiff pull, I also have a early 1900's H.Boker Improved Cutlery that is also strong/stiff.
I really like a strong spring and pull, I like the strong positive lockup it provides, I have two Northfields that I wish had a stronger pull the #62 courthouse & the #68 white owl, not that the two knives are flawed in any way I just wish they had the strong pull of my #54, I'm afraid that GEC might be lightening the springs, to avoid all the extra redo work of customers sending back a knife to be lightened, a knife might seem hard to open the first few times but after that it has never been a issue, I think maybe people quit on them too quickly, maybe hand strength needs to be built up in the lightweight world of convenience that we live in today.

Pete
 
Laquiole R. David has a plenty strong spring, as I believe have most of Laquioles. Still the action is smooth. I like it quite a lot. More high-end Laquiole owners can tell more.
 
I've not found anything to compare to a British Army clasp knife for nail-breaking ! :)

Like Pete, I also prefer a strong pull generally. The bottle-opener/screwdriver blade on my Bladeforums 2011 knife IS a bit of a nailbreaker, but it's still my favourite knife :)
 
One of my favorite knives is a John Lloyd gunstock with amber stag. When I first got it I essentially couldn't use it, the pull was so strong. It made me very upset because every single aspect of the knife was perfect otherwise; this is the issue with identifying a strong pull as a 'problem'-- as a subjective aspect of a knife's construction, I am sure that the gunstock would have functioned well as is for someone else. I traded it and recently swapped back for it, and in the interim someone had sent it back to Mr. Lloyd for a back spring adjustment. It is now a perfect crisp 5 with a flush spring in all three positions and the only custom I have held onto.

This speaks both to the trickiness of the subject and the integrity of makers like John who are willing to cater to customers' particularities. And oh yeah, the only time I've encountered very strong springs on a non-GEC production piece is the pen blade on several older Case knives.
 
Like Steve's, my Lloyd has a heavy pull. It's a single blade (toothpick) and is pinchable, so it's great. If I had to use only the nail nick to open it, it might be more difficult. But, I like a really heavy spring tension on my pocket knives, especially larger single blades.
Most of my production knives have medium-strength pulls, including the few GECs that I have tried. My Case knives have very light pulls, my Queens are light-to-medium.
 
Nearly every old Remington Bullet (1123) I have handled made me pause and get my "good nail" on it. Much tighter than most any GEC's I have handled. Although they made some 25's that the secondary must have been pinned closed (had to send a couple back) ;)
 
I've seen some knives by Camillus that were nailbreakers. Back when I was in the army, Camillus had the contract to supply the military with the MKL knife. That's the all steel scout knife people call a demo knife. The knife blade was not bad, but in half the knives I ever handled, the screw driver blade was a nail breaker. On top of that, the back springs had a habit of breaking, and I always had a private theory that the two were related.

I've seen a few Case knives that had really stiff springs. Not a lot, but enough.

I guess I'll go against the tide and say I don't see any reason for a nail breaking or strong spring that makes it hard to open a knife under any conditions. If you know how to use that knife, an easy spring is no danger, and someday you just may have to open that knife in a serious situation with cold or wet hands. Or both, with some feeling gone. An emergency is no time to be wrestling with a knife trying to get it open. You may have an injured hand of finger, or you may just get old enough to get arthritis. It's be too bad to build up a nice knife collection, only to someday not be able to open and use any of them.

Carl.
 
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I had a case large jackknife from 1977 which had a very strong pen blade. For me strong springs are not necessarily a flaw perhaps it depends on the use - if it was a big knife like a GEC 23, I would want stronger springs just because the consequences of such a blade folding on your fingers would be dramatic, perhaps for smaller knives, a lighter pull is better e.g. for Jackknife's above mentioned reasons.
 
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My Case Soddie Jr. is a nail breaker for sure, 8 or 9 out of 10. BUT due to the handle shape, it's easily pinchable. So, it's relatively easy to open, and locks up better than some lock backs that I've had (gas station variety, they're long gone). I dig it.
 
jackknife said:
I guess I'll go against the tide and say I don't see any reason for a nail breaking or string spring that makes it hard to open a knife under any conditions. If you know how to use that knife, an easy spring is no danger, and someday you just may have to open that knife in a serious situation with cold or wet hands. Or both, with some feeling gone. An emergency is no time to be wrestling with a knife trying to get it open. You may have an injured hand of finger, or you may just get old enough to get arthritis. It's be too bad to build up a nice knife collection, only to someday not be able to open and use any of them.
Click to expand...

My opinion on the matter perfectly expressed.
 
Yeah pinchability is a big thing for me. Not a necessity, but it helps mitigate stiffer springs. My Bullnose sodbuster was pretty stiff at first, has eased up considerably and is now comfortable to open even with the nailnick, but pinches open like a dream, love it.

For the non-GEC answers, the Case nailbreakers surprise me. Granted I've no personal experience with Case, yet anyways, but I'd always imagined they were soft openers. But then, it seems their nailbreakers are more exceptions. Interesting anyways to see the other makers that have put out nailbreakers, but I guess it seems to be random and not consistent amongst any of these makes. Makes me wonder what the pull was like on the old pocketknives of the late 19th century. I suspect many a cowboy would have subscribed to Carl's philosophy on being able to open under adverse conditions.
 
Considering the fact that my point of view is exactly the same as Carl and Doug, my answer to the question is "unfortunately, no".
Meaning that all the US made slipjoints that I've owned and used (Buck, Case, CSC, Queen, Schrade) all have medium pulls, personally I prefer the lightest ones (like the Buck 30x series), but even the strongest ones among my knives aren't nailbreakers at all (and my scale is quite different from the average US traditionalist, since I grew up with SAK and friction folders).
On the other hand, it seems GEC made the deliberate choice of producing stiff knives. I do understand that a big part of their customers prefer things to be like that; I'm just the opposite, and as much as I like their patterns, I only have one GEC and I'm not sure if I will buy more. I hate owning a knife that I really like (and some GEC knives are really great) but not carrying it because the backspring tension makes it awful to open.
I wonder if they could borrow the backspring engineer currently working for Buck... :D

Fausto
:cool:
 
Even my nail breakers ie. my Laguiole & Gec #54 moose I can open one handed, so opening in a perceived emergency, for me would not be any sort of an issue, plus in a emergency a level head prevails.

Pete
 
I've noticed that some of my GEC's are pretty dang hard to open and the rest are perfect. The funny thing is I have two 76 Outlaw Jacks and one of them is perfect, Tidioute Cutlery version, and the other one is harder than I would prefer and that's the Northfield Texas Rose version. I have a Buck that is way softer than any of my GEC knives and it doesn't have that satisfying snap that my GEC's do when they open up but it is much easier to open and sometimes I carry it just for that reason. I couldn't definitely see how somebody with arthritis or any kind of physical disability would have issues with GEC knives though and that would be a shame because they are so nice!
 
One thing that I've noticed is that all slipjoints, whether floppy or nailbreakers, get easier to open as they break in. With that in mind, I'd rather start with a knife with a stout spring than one that is light.

- Christian
 
I prefer a lighter pull on my knives. The Victorinox pull is about a heavy as I like. Maybe it's because I'm not doing any real heavy cutting, but I just don't see the advantage of a really strong back spring. As long as it keeps the knife closed while its in my pocket, its doing its job.
 
The only GEC I own that I would even say comes close to that description is my #23. The rest of them are merely sprung firm and tight, which is how they should be, imo. The #23 requires a little more effort, but I think that's a good and desirable thing on a big slip.
 
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