non-knife people/LEO friendly spydercos for relatively hard use?

R

raisins

Joined
Apr 24, 2011
Messages
32
Hi,

I'm relatively new to the spydie addiction but currently have: cricket, para 2, manix 2, tasman salt, endura, and delica.

For EDC, I want something that is non-threatening that has a rugged lock, a blade of around 3", and can be opened with only thumb action. These qualities are desired for defense against a population of large dogs that are owned by various irresponsible people in the recently degentrified area a few blocks from me (animal control and LEO in the area are not preemptive in this regard). My dog and I were attacked a few months ago, and my pup barely escaped with his life. I currently go for walks with my dog touting fox labs pepper spray and a manix 2 (and stay out of the bad parts, but dogs have legs).

Among my current spydies, the delica is the closest to what I'm looking for, but it requires a thumb push and wrist flip. I do not usually flick my blades, but I want the option of quick deployment that the manix 2, for instance, offers but without the look that does not say "typical pocket knife".

Ideally, it would like a smaller, less tactical looking spydie with either the compression or ball bearing lock, but I don't think these currently are in production.

I'm thinking among current offerings the Sage 2 might be the best bet. I think the Caly 3 has similar properties, but my experience with smaller blade mid-locks is that they typically have more resistance when opening. Between these two, I'd probably go with the Sage 2. Neither seems to be particularly shaped for handle retention, like the para 2 and manix 2 obviously are.

Any other options I've missed? I haven't really considered the byrd knives, I'll look at those too.

-R
 
Last edited:
The Caly 3 flips open very fast. I can open mine faster than an automatic knife. If you want a bigger blade how about the Caly 3.5?
 
Pretty sure I'd opt for something more like a crowbar or baseball bat if defense against roaming dogs is your motivation. Just my two cents.
 
Sonnemann said:
Pretty sure I'd opt for something more like a crowbar or baseball bat if defense against roaming dogs is your motivation. Just my two cents.
Click to expand...

True enough, but I could always have the knife too, and it is less likely to be left at home.
 
So, the caly 3 is faster opening than the delica? I'm looking at the caly 3 carbon fiber with zdp/420 laminate. I've toyed with the idea of lapping the tang/lock interface on the delica, but I'm afraid I would get the grit in the pivot or not be able to remove it all without disassembling the knife.
 
Hi Raisins,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum.

The difference in deployment speed over a slow thumb opening and a "flick" opening is not likely to be more that 1/2 second. Hardly meaningfull in the situation you are dealing with.

My recommendation would be 1) a 3' - 4' stick about an inch in diameter. Most dogs know what a "stick" is. Assuming it's necessary, A swift knock is likely to deter. 2) pepper spray, preferably a larger supply than one squirt in case of multiple dogs packing. 3) knife, serrated. ( a serrated rescue is a fierce cutter and socially acceptable). Keep in mind that if you cut a dog with one of our knives, the dog will most likely die and that creates its own issues. When I was riding bikes in the canyons, I carried an squirt gun with ammonia for dogs chasinbg my bike, but it's pretty harsh.

sal
 
The big concern I would have would be those irresponsible owners you describe AFTER you deal with the dog(s).

They may go stark raving loony on you if you harm one of their "best friends".

Difficult situation you have there...just think it through carefully.

Good luck.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Raisins,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum.

The difference in deployment speed over a slow thumb opening and a "flick" opening is not likely to be more that 1/2 second. Hardly meaningfull in the situation you are dealing with.

My recommendation would be 1) a 3' - 4' stick about an inch in diameter. Most dogs know what a "stick" is. Assuming it's necessary, A swift knock is likely to deter. 2) pepper spray, preferably a larger supply than one squirt in case of multiple dogs packing. 3) knife, serrated. ( a serrated rescue is a fierce cutter and socially acceptable). Keep in mind that if you cut a dog with one of our knives, the dog will most likely die and that creates its own issues. When I was riding bikes in the canyons, I carried an squirt gun with ammonia for dogs chasinbg my bike, but it's pretty harsh.

sal
Click to expand...

A broom handle cut to length is effective. If you are a bike rider, a can of wasp spray is more effective than the Freeze +P, in my experience. Dogs generally won't get close enough facing you to be able to use a knife effectively.

My 2¢
 
Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies. Part of me is just looking for a reason for a new spydie ;)
 
I'm sure this is spot on in most dog bites and aggressive dog incidences. I'm most worried about the sustained bite-hold-shake attacks that seem to be most damaging. When my dog and I were attacked, I was right over the attacker and he didn't seem to care. I'm amazed I was able to get him to let go.
 
Sal Glesser said:
How did you get him to let go?

sal
Click to expand...

I pulled on his choker chain and punched his eyes and ears while screaming at him. After a few minutes, he ran off after I think realizing it wasn't going to be too easy. He didn't react to any of the blows in particular and did not even glance my way during the attack. I had my hand around the choker still and he pulled me to the ground and several feet along the pavement before I was able to free my hand. This was my first violent altercation with a dog of that size (80 to 100 lbs by my estimate), and the brute strength he possessed was amazing.

Seth
 
As a police officer, I routinely had to deal with roving, dangerous dogs in a rural area in northern New Mexico, and have also broken up a dog fight or two. I can tell you that pepper spray always worked immediately for me. I'm a spydie lover, but don't care to get close enough to fighting dogs to use a knife. Heck, buy whatever spydie you want (I agree with Sal's advice for a serrated blade) and also carry the pepper spray. The spydie can be your "last ditch" weapon.
 
Then again, if you're right handed and just looking for an excuse to purchase a more elegant, less tactical, looking Spyderco I'd suggest either the Sage I or Sage II. I'd rate the CF Sage I as the least likely to cause the timid to experience involuntary incontinence, but either would be a superb choice.
 
Three years ago, my wife was out walking our poodle in the snow, when a great Pyrenees got loose from his master (a judge), ran up, knocked my wife down and bit her on the leg. She was protecting our dog. The owner of the attacking dog threw himself on it and got the dog off her. The bite was close to a major artery. If it had torn the artery, my wife might have bled to death. Something like half a million dog bites are reported each year, and many involve children. Something like close to 5000 mailmen are bitten by dogs each year.

When I walked our dog, I carried a Rookie in my pocket, but also carried pepper spray and a 3 ft. stick. I originally got a garotte from Kris Cutlery, but found it wasn't strong when testing it on a cardboard box. I carved one for myself out of Argentine lignum vitae. A long walking stick of 3-4 ft is the best defense, according to a local police officer. Even an umbrella can work - it did for my wife in a later incident.
At night, I carried a 4D maglight, with a very bright Malkoff Devices LED insert. One night a strange dog ran up to us, I turned around, the light flashed in the dogs eyes...and the dog jumped in the air and ran away.
I'd recommend the Caly3 that you described. I have one, and it is a very quick opening knife. The action is smoother than my Rookie. It is highly recommended.
Personally, I'd want the long stick and pepper spray. You don't want to be close enough to have to use a knife to defend yourself. It is windy here in Illinois, so my first line of defense would be the stick! If nothing else works, then you can always use the knife.
There have been a number of dog attacks where I live, and they often are directed toward someone walking a dog.
P.S. the offending dog got house arrest for a few days, and the judge's homeowners insurance had to pay for my wife's jeans. In Illinois, dangerous dogs are allowed "3 free bites" before being declared dangerous.
 
I bought some Freeze +P about 20y ago when I had a door to door delivery route and had the occasional unfriendly mutt. Our city has a leash law so there wasn't much of a problem and these dogs were not defending their yards.

I would suggest getting a couple of cans of the spray and practice with one. I found if you spray upwind, some of the mist will come back at you, and, if there is much of a wind, it really affects the trajectory of the spray.
 
I agree with Sal and the rest - the knife should only be your last ditch option if you need to deliver a devastating blow to a latched on dog. I've heard that some breeds that are blessed with the physical attributes to be killers (pit bulls, etc.) will drown in water before releasing their grip on something that it wants. Clubbing the animal or spraying it with something may be ineffective, especially if the dog is diseased. A good serrated blade will cut through the fur a little better I would imagine, God forbid it got to the point where you would need to consider cutting/stabbing a dog.

As for the first line of defense, I would highly recommend a telescoping baton if you can carry it legally. You can slip it in your back pocket, deploy it extremely quickly, and deliver SERIOUS damage.

If youre just looking for a 3" Spyderco that is tough and wont scare people, but could still be used in an emergency...Sage 1 or 2. They are incredible knives. Caly3 is great too but I'm not as big a fan of its blade shape and handle ergos.

Note - I do not think all pit bulls are killers, they just happen to be put together favorably to do so :)
 
danseifert said:
I agree with Sal and the rest - the knife should only be your last ditch option if you need to deliver a devastating blow to a latched on dog. I've heard that some breeds that are blessed with the physical attributes to be killers (pit bulls, etc.) will drown in water before releasing their grip on something that it wants. Clubbing the animal or spraying it with something may be ineffective, especially if the dog is diseased. A good serrated blade will cut through the fur a little better I would imagine, God forbid it got to the point where you would need to consider cutting/stabbing a dog.

As for the first line of defense, I would highly recommend a telescoping baton if you can carry it legally. You can slip it in your back pocket, deploy it extremely quickly, and deliver SERIOUS damage.

If youre just looking for a 3" Spyderco that is tough and wont scare people, but could still be used in an emergency...Sage 1 or 2. They are incredible knives. Caly3 is great too but I'm not as big a fan of its blade shape and handle ergos.

Note - I do not think all pit bulls are killers, they just happen to be put together favorably to do so :)
Click to expand...

You're right that a knife would be last ditch for sure.

I would love a baton (more low key than a staff), but I believe they cannot be carried here (but will check). I am seriously eyeballing the sage 2 and the caly 3 (new laminate with cf). I'm leaning sage 2 because I believe the handle looks more secure in hand. I've not handled either but the caly 3 is smooth CF, no? I don't have a good knife shop nearby, so I buy all my spydies without handling them. Haven't been disappointed yet, they are the work of brilliant people.
 
TomTerrific said:
I bought some Freeze +P about 20y ago when I had a door to door delivery route and had the occasional unfriendly mutt. Our city has a leash law so there wasn't much of a problem and these dogs were not defending their yards.

I would suggest getting a couple of cans of the spray and practice with one. I found if you spray upwind, some of the mist will come back at you, and, if there is much of a wind, it really affects the trajectory of the spray.
Click to expand...

I have the LEO version of fox labs (stream so the wind is not as much an issue, and it goes farther). I also have the practice can (no hot in it). Got the little wet wipes that supposedly counteract that burn, but that stuff is like 4 times hotter than a habanero, so I think that is like trying to empty the ocean with a paper cup.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top