Non-knife related hunting/survival question...

M

mwinter

Joined
Dec 1, 2000
Messages
87
I've selected my light pack gun for my upcoming outdoor outings in my soon-to-be new home of Wisconsin. After reading about a 400lb black bear strolling the streets of Eau Claire last week, I think it will also accompany me in the truck
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Ruger 77/44 bolt action, stainless, polymer stock, .44 Mag. Lightweight, accurate, simple, weatherproof, and just enough gun. Now all you black bear hunters, tell me -no BS- what's the best factory .44 load for bear. I have tested the Winchester 250gr Partition Gold (feed jams), the Hornady 300gr XTP (LOVE this one), and the PMC Starfire (accuracy beyond 25 yds is, well, worthless).
CorBon and Federal both make hardcast lead hunting .44s, and Corbon also makes a 305gr HCL jacketed penetrator...anyone with experience or an opinion chime in; I am open to suggestions from folks who've been down this road before. The rifle gives maybe 150 fps over a Redhawk due to longer barrel, and I'd like to stick with a jacketed round.
Many thanks.


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Condition Yellow: for a longer, happier life.
 
I apologize in advance that my reply is not directly on point with your rifle question. I have fired the Cor Bon 320 grain lead hardcast (non-jacketed) loads out of several 44 pistols and found them to be quite accurate. Cor Bon claims that the lead is a very hard alloy and shouldn't quickly lead up a carbine barrel. However, I have not yet tried them through any rifle so I don't know whether that is true.

I would like to add that the 1250 fps claimed velocity from a six inch barrel was confirmed by a friend's chronograph. They even get 1075 fps from my 3 inch Trailboss and 1150 fps from a 4 inch Mountain Gun.

I have not tested the Cor Bons on game, but they hit the 100 yard steel plates with a LOT of authority. Recoil is very punishing in a small revolver, but should be no problem in a carbine.

Other shooters tell me that the 305 grain penetrators also perform well, but I have no personal knowledge.
 
If your gun likes the 300 gr XTP load, it should be fine. That load will perform well on larger game like black bear. I would continue testing some other loads, since you will not need that heavy of load for all you shooting though. I'm very surprised to hear that the Win. partition gold didn't feed well, as we have found that it feeds VERY well in Marlin lever guns. Oh well, that is why we test these things first, right?
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Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
www.camillusknives.com
 
You started a topic near and dear to me
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I use a 44 mag lever action for bear. I have taken many in the 200 - 275 lb range (still haven't stumbled upon a 400 lb monster
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) and all were taken with a standard federal 240jhp round. One I took the bullet entered behind the right shoulder and totally destroyed the left shoulder. Any of the rounds you listed should work well. I have also taken moose with the same rifle/cartridge combo ( a 400lb calf) and it did the job. But I ended up picking up some Hornedy 265 gr xtp's as moose are , well dumb and I want them to know they've been hit. Have't tried these yet.
My poor 44 mag is always being slammed, but used within its range ( took a mule deer in WY last fall at 150yrds, that is the outer limit for this cartridge)it is a fine rig. Since you are using it as a defensive firearm, that won't be a problem.
You gotta love that big hole in the muzzle.

Cheers
Ken
 
I appreciate the info guys....I will stick with the XTP 300 for now; surprisingly it is the most affordable of the heavy .44 game loads I've found. I use the PMC truncated cone 240 JHP for practice; it's good to know that 240's do indeed work on Mr. Bruin.
I will try out the ProLoad 270 Gold Dot (I carry PL in my 'social' handguns) and the CorBon just for jollies.
Many thanks again and stay safe fellas
 
some interesting notes on my first impressions of this rifle/cartridge combo...
-The Win. PGHP didn't feed well due to what I , as a reloading doofus, deem to be thicker brass and a sharp case neck (?).
-At 100 yds, the 200gr Win. Silvertip .44 Spec reliably knocked down rifle pepper poppers....using a bit of Kentucky windage of course but I was nevertheless impressed.
-I am looking into replacement sights, as the factory Ruger sights are not very robust and difficult to see when shooting under stress/speed, something I assume often accompanies bear hunting. Perhaps the gun gods will smile on me and Ashley has some to fit that size dovetail...fingers crossed.
-Overall, a very reliable, easy shooting, accurate, and impressive combo. Kudos to Ruger for making this gun despite a limited market and heavy competition from the leverguns.
 
In general, I think Rugers are some of the best firearms out there. I also think that the 44 mag is marginal for dangerous game. I know that people have done it, I personally do not believe that it packs quite enough of a punch.

Having said that, I would check all the ballistics of all of the rounds, and get the heaviest slug that goes the fastest, no matter what the manufacturer. In a 44 caliber, I think that bullet expansion is undesirable, that penetration is preferable, the 44 being plenty wide to start with. I think that expansion in a handgun cartridge is far too limiting for the penetration.

I can't comment about the brands, because I load my own. If you can get at least 300 grains travelling at least 1200 fps, then that's a good start.

One thing to consider are Rugers/Marlins in 45 Long Colt. You can reload them to MUCH higher velocities than the old guns, and get remarkable performance, even surpassing the 44 magnum. If you're not adverse to recoil, Marlin makes a great guide carbine in 45-70 that would pretty much anchor any bruin where he stands.

If others are comfortable using this, that's fine, it's an individual choice. I personally would feel severely undergunned looking at a bear, but's that's just me - I tend to go overboard on these things.

I use a Casull, 325 grains at 1800 fps - no problem. It has double the muzzle energy of a 44 mag, and it is accurate to well past 100 yards, just ask any silhoutte shooter. Of course, if you're looking at self defense, I doubt you have to worry about more than 40 yards, maybe 20 in heavy brush.

Here's to hoping you never have to use it!
 
i am not trying to start a flame war, but if you are going to carry a 8 lb rifle why wouldent you use a rifle cal. round. what you are carrying is an 8 lb handgun.

if you are worried about a bear attack, wouldent you want a caliber capable of giving you a chance at a one shot stop on an animal. if you think that way then any handgun caliber does not make sense. we arent hunting grouse here. dangerous game is just that dangerous, taking it on with a sub caliber rifle is illadvised to say the least.
then again it is your hide.
alex

 
I agree with the comments about the 44 being marginal for bear, even with heavy loads like the Cor Bon. We all know that bears can be lead sponges and soak up a lot before going down. I have used the 430 gr. gas checked, hard cast load from Buffalo Bore in my 45-70 lever gun and it is impressive. Around 3500 lb/ft of energy, a huge frontal area, excellent mass retention, and deep penetration. Far better than the 44's can do.

Garrett also makes a "custom" 45-70 cartridge for those who don't reload, and I've heard good things about it.

DPD
 
Just to get everybody back on track...He's moving to Wisconsin which means Black Bears. The .44 magnum will be perfect there for that. Not to mention it will be great as a woods deer rifle there as well.

ANother benefit is having a handgun and rifle in the same caliber. If I didn't already have my Marlin .44 magnum to mate up with my Redhawk, the Ruger 77/44 would be the rifle on my list.

Good luck with the bolt gun!
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Plainsman
primitiveguy@hotmail.com
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Plainsman's Cabin Forums</A>
 
Yep, I know the .44M is just enough for large, dangerous game. If I actively hunt a black bear I will use something heavier, like my .30-06 or 12ga slug gun. And even those guns are worthless against dangerous game if the wrong ammo is used (varmint loads or birdshot.)
The little Ruger .44 rifle doesn't weigh 8 lbs....fully loaded, with one in the chamber, it weighs about the same as my Ruger 10/22. Which is why I chose a pistol-caliber carbine....a reliable, lightweight, weatherproof gun to accompany on scouting/hiking trips where short-range bear defense is a consideration. Bottom line is, I don't enjoy carrying heavy things....especially when there is only a tiny chance of them being necessary. Lotsa hunters think the .44 comes out as enough to deal with even the largest black bear at close range provided the proper ammunition is used. >44M ammo is relatively inexpensive and readily available, whereas .45-70 or Casull ammo is rarely either.
Plus, it DOES make a neat whitetail woods-gun, is compatible with a powerful and capable sidearm, and just plain shoots well. I stink at operating lever actions having grown up on a bolt gun, so this gun fits my needs exceptionally well. Thanks again for the advice and info fellas.

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Condition Yellow: for a longer, happier life.
 
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