Non-knife related metallurgy question (Mete? Kevin? Bueller?)

[deker]

I'm in the thinking phase of a project where I'm looking for an extremely corrosion resistant (and hypo-allergenic if possible) combination of stainless steels for some damascus for jewellery. I know that 316L is a very corrosion resistant steel as it's used in medical implants, piercing jewellery, etc. What would be something that I could use that would etch differently for pattern, but maintain some of the same properties of corrosion resistance? Hardenability is not required as this will be for purely decorative purposes.

I've seen recently that 316/304 contrasts well, but I'm not certain how 304 ranks on corrosion resistance or reacting with skin.

Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

-d

 

[mete]

Hypoallergenic depends on the user ! Some are allergic to nickel found in the 300 series. I wouldn't have thought 304/316 would give much contrast Stainless damascus is available www.ssdamascus.com is one source for the material. ..Stacy might have some ideas.

 

[deker]

Hypoallergenic depends on the user ! Some are allergic to nickel found in the 300 series. I wouldn't have thought 304/316 would give much contrast Stainless damascus is available www.ssdamascus.com is one source for the material. ..Stacy might have some ideas.

Well, sure I could buy damasteel, but where's the fun in that?!

As for 304/316 as a mix, I got the idea from J. Arthur Loose in this post at Don Fogg's forum. Apparently sulphuric acid eats at the 304 more aggressively than the 316. I can't argue with the results, that's sure!

As for the hypoallergenic nature of the materials, I'm running with the assumption that unless the user has a nickel allergy we'll be in good shape. I'm taking this from the fact that a LOT of body piercing jewelery is made from 316L (or 316LVM...what's the difference here?)

Does anybody have the composition of 304L/316L available? I'd like to see how they differ. That might help me noodle this out a bit...

Thanks!

-d

 

[Whoever Wherever]

My metalurgy knowledge consists of what I can understand of the more gifted forum members here. Well, that and what I understand of verhovens paper on HT'ing knives. But... I was a body piercer for many years. Body jewelry has to be well made and of good quality (even though there is much of it that is not) as often it is inside fresh piercings that go through actual muscle tissue and not just cartilage. Niobium is a great metal for this type of jewely and I believe is used in some surgical implant parts for pacemakers and such. Would it be possible to make damascus with it? I know you can find niobium in certain steels but dont know if it could be welded to a steel flat out. It has a grey apearance on its own but gets blueish after awhile and anodizes very well.

 

[deker]

My metalurgy knowledge consists of what I can understand of the more gifted forum members here. Well, that and what I understand of verhovens paper on HT'ing knives. But... I was a body piercer for many years. Body jewelry has to be well made and of good quality (even though there is much of it that is not) as often it is inside fresh piercings that go through actual muscle tissue and not just cartilage. Niobium is a great metal for this type of jewely and I believe is used in some surgical implant parts for pacemakers and such. Would it be possible to make damascus with it? I know you can find niobium in certain steels but dont know if it could be welded to a steel flat out. It has a grey apearance on its own but gets blueish after awhile and anodizes very well.

I'm not going to say that it's not POSSIBLE to fuse niobium to steel, but it certainly wouldn't be easy or cheap.

I spent a LOT of time around piercers/tattoo artists in a former life (my girlfriend at the time worked at an APP affiliate piercing shop for years.....I was the shop rat and de-facto hand-holder for folks flying solo) so I definitely get that body jewelery has to be very well made. I certainly wouldn't recommend anything I made for non-healed or freshly stretched piercings, but I'm thinking that stainless damascus plugs/tunnels/claws/septum tusks/etc would be pretty sweet. I don't plan to do anything like barbells or things that require precision threading or the like. I'll leave that to the professionals. I'm also willing to be my own guinea pig. That said, I don't want to do anything stupid...

Looking for any and all input to keep from doing BadThings(tm)

-d

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Personally I think people who are into body piercing have a hole in their hear.....often several. Oh, wait a minute....this is Deker's post...so that is a redundant statement.

I would think that any low nickle stainless would work. Niranium dental alloy would be something to try, but I don't know about making damascus from them. Some dental alloys are: Cr-Ni, Co-Cr, Cr-Ni-Be, and Cu-Al.

Then there is titanium damascus?

Final thought - have you considered, gold-platinum mokume' ? Totally non-recative, and not to hard to fuse together.
Stacy

 

[mete]

J.A.Loose ,I'll take his word, he knows what he's doing, I have one of his knives !
Metallurgists call niobium by it's original name Columbium [ Cb]
316LVM - LVM is low carbon , vacuum melted .Which means fewer inclusions . All that metallurgy knowledge and effort for body piercing ??

 

[deker]

Personally I think people who are into body piercing have a hole in their hear.....often several. Oh, wait a minute....this is Deker's post...so that is a redundant statement.

You should've see me 10 years ago. I have about 10 less holes than I used to...

I would think that any low nickle stainless would work. Niranium dental alloy would be something to try, but I don't know about making damascus from them. Some dental alloys are: Cr-Ni, Co-Cr, Cr-Ni-Be, and Cu-Al.

Hrmmm....damascus is kind of the plan...

Then there is titanium damascus?

Gimme a little time Stacy...The folks making TiMascus are doing a bang up job of it, but I'm positive it isn't simple. I'd also need a MUCH bigger hammer to move Ti effectively. I've done it by hand and it SUCKS.

Final thought - have you considered, gold-platinum mokume' ? Totally non-recative, and not to hard to fuse together.

I'd love to, but when you're talking about pieces that can be 1/2" or more in diameter and potentially solid, methinks it's cost prohibitive. Especially with patterns that require a good deal of stock removal to get at the "good stuff" inside. Unless you're buying materials Daddy Warbucks...

-d

 

[deker]

316LVM - LVM is low carbon , vacuum melted .Which means fewer inclusions . All that metallurgy knowledge and effort for body piercing ??

Well, I'm not so certain that the body piercing set gets the metallurgy of it. They went with "implant grade stainless" and that was about the end of it. Going with the cleaner vacuum melted stuff makes sense. Usually what you'll see is that the "higher end" body jewellery companies will advertise 316LVM while the rest of them simply say 316L. If I'm forging it I doubt it will make much difference.

If you were referring to *my* effort, well, hey, I don't half-ass anything

-d

 

[Sam Salvati]

Deker contact Mr J Loose, he just made some stainless damascus for making rings from, I beleive the mix was 304L and 316L.

 

[deker]

Deker contact Mr J Loose, he just made some stainless damascus for making rings from, I beleive the mix was 304L and 316L.

Yeah, in the thread I linked to above

It's OK Sam, we're all late to the party at one time or another

-d

 

[delbert ealy]

Rob,
If you like the 316 then mix it with pure nickel.
It does cause allergy in some people and you won't be able to sell it for jewelry in the european union.
Thanks,
Del

 

[deker]

Rob,
If you like the 316 then mix it with pure nickel.
It does cause allergy in some people and you won't be able to sell it for jewelry in the european union.
Thanks,
Del

Pure nickel would almost certainly cause an allergic reaction in anybody with even the slightest sensitivity. In either case, the "shiny" seems to be handled by the 316, I'm just not sure how 304 will stand up to the environment....

-d

 

[safta]

Not sure how much contrast youll get but you could also look at AL6XN, it does have alot more nickel than 300 series though.

 

[Steven Penner]

If you want white damascus combinations - how about :

White gold...

and-or

Silver & Shibuichi

You can melt up various alloys of Shibuichi with differing levels of copper& silver that will patina differently.

Fine silver, 25:75, 50:50, 75:25......


Titanium Damascus - niobium would be cool ( and not so easy...)