"Non Magnetic" curious

Gollnick; Absolutely great post!!

I didn't know that they used induced EMF (I think that is the right term )to trigger detectors. Fascinating. Thanks again
(formerly Whacko) Walt
 
Last post for the night...

I once carried a full size endura BLACK BLADE full serration that was looked at by BWI airport security and passed through, after they had me check my delica in the cargo hold.

As far as the non-mag pieces go, Neewt Livesay gets my nod, with his NRG at $20.00. Maybe I got a better deal, eh? Also, AG Russel CIA Letter Opener at 4.95 will punch through plywood. That's good enough for me.

What about, as long as we are on the subject of tactical tupperware, Gwinny and Walt, a friend of mine and college and I came up with an idea: What if we were to make a truly non mag firearm from the composites available and for kicks give it a smooth finish and color it bright orange or pink throughout the composite like a plastic cap gun, then make caseless or composite cased ammo with a sort of non-mag projectile. Yes, too much time will do that to you...lemme here what you think
 
Here's another thing to consider: returning from London a few weeks ago, after breezing through the metal detector with no problem, I was very thoroughly patted down. Anything in my waistband (or over my breastbone, or in a lot of other places) would have been found.
May be different in the states, though, I don't travel so much I can give a definitive answer.


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Wolf
Always store beer in a dark place.


 
Parker, my imagination leads me to suspect that the gun you've proposed has already been built. My imagination also leads me to suspect that it's not very durable, good only for a few shots, but a few well-placed shots will ruin your vacation.

One more tip: if you do get sent back to check your knife, just present the knife and your ticket to the ticket agent. They'll put it in a box or a padded envelope (they have them handy for just this sort of thing), give it a claim check, and check it through for you. Being in a small box, it will not come down the chute at your destination. You'll have to claim it at the airlines bagage desk.

Chuck
 
Parker; your question regarding a composite pistol is an interesting one. I can see several problems immediately:

First, you are going to have a very low mass slide; therefore, you will need a very strong recoil spring. This must be made of metal, and the RS for a 1911 is about 3/8 oz., with a firing pin spring included. You will need more springs, however. I don't see how you are going feed ammo without a magazine spring, also a trigger spring is necessary, and there has to be someway of putting tension on the extractor, so there is another spring.
If you want the hammer to go forward, then yet another spring is required. In short, a pistol requires a lot of metal mass in the springs contained therein.

Second, I don't think there is any composite available today which will handle the pressure of a metallic cartridge. Thus, I think your project doomed to failure if you must use a steel bbl., but see only one way to avoid using a metal bbl. This would be by use of a ceramic or composite bbl. with a thin Ti liner. Since Ti is very poor at generating eddy currents, it may be of insufficient quantity to set off a metal detector.

Third, the ammo. Caseless rounds sound great, but consider that you must have a primer in each round, and this is more metal. Further, caseless rounds depend on the firearm for gas sealing (since there is no brass cartridge case to do the job), and this requires a heavier construction than in a firearm utilizing conventional ammunition. I think that designing a composite pistol which could seal the gas on a caseless round would be a difficult task indeed.

Fourth, what about the projectile? If you use something non metallic, such as a ceramic, it wouldn't set off a metal detector, but I doubt that the projectile would have good terminal ballistics. Ceramic will not expand, although it may fragment (which is NOT good for a defensive round); further, it is very light compared with lead, so the kinetic energy in a ceramic bullet would much less than a lead bullet. Of course, you could increase operating pressure and gain high velocity, but I doubt that a pistol such as the one we have outlined would stand the high operating pressure, and even if high velocity could be obtained, the ceramic bullet, being lighter than a lead bullet, would shed velocity much more rapidly.

For these reasons, I believe the project to be not feasible at this time. As far as I can determine as a civilian. In reality, I wouldn't be surprised if some government agency is busily working on just this project, and will have a working pistol within a few years, if it does not already exist.

Questions, comments, criticisms as always, are welcome. (formerly Whacko) Walt


 
Gollnick,

If you have a large brass belt buckle and carry a knife, would the two cancel each other out? I have worn a brass belt buckle and a Buck 112 without setting off a metal detector.

Danny
 
Did I just blow large dollars on an mpf that won`t help me through metal detectors? I`m not worried about airports, But many manufacturing plants and even our local high-school sporting events use them now .After the Littleton tragedy I expect their use to rise. Sure,their looking for guns mostly but knives are sure to follow
BE SHARP
David
 
You are correct,David.You cannot throw these people another biscut.This is War.

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I work for an airline and go thru the Magnetometers on a daily basis. They will not pick up Titanium at all.

I was in touch with the owner of Mission knives when I was considering the MPF (before I bought my Kit Carson)and he told me his folders would go thru no problem but the hand wands will see the Ti. So far the wands haven't seen mine!

I carry a custom Kit Carson small model 16, all it Titanium, screws/clip/backspacer/pivot pin, all in Ti. The blade is Stellite with contains only 2 percent metal. So far it hasn't been noticed at all!

Even if it is noticed it's only a 3 1/2 inch blade with no serrations which is still legal, just don't want any hassles from the security people!
smile.gif
 
A further, non-technical, observation on metal detectors -- in my experience the sensitivity of detectors is variable and appears to be user adjustable. I've mentioned elsewhere that I carried a small Tekna Hidden Edge through various airline & building metal detectors for years witout so much as a beep, yet it was immediately detected on a White House tour.

In addition, passing through the same airline metal detector on different occasions can yield different results. I typically put keys, pocket change, Cricket as money clip, watch w/metal band, etc. in my jacket and pass it through the scanner with my other carry on items. Eyeglasses in my shirt pocket had never been a problem, until a month or so ago when they caused the detector to go off. It appears that YMMV on a day-by-day basis. As I said earlier, IMO, carrying any restricted item is simply not worth the consequences.

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Cheers,

--+Brian+--

 
There's a US law against making an undetectable gun. I would not be surprised if one or more governments have them, but they're not talking. I would expect it to be a multi-barreled derringer and not reloadable, although the barrels could be made replaceable. I think a ceramic barrel liner wrapped with kevlar or carbon fiber would work. Of course you could reload from the muzzle, but I would not expect a nonmetallic barrel to last for multiple shots. As Walt pointed out, there would be additional problems in building a semiautomatic.

Plastic and ceramic bullets have been around for years -- they lose velocity fast because they're so light, but velocity at close range is tremendous for the same reason. They're used for armor piercing.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
CJ; you been forgetting your 02 mask at high altitudes lately??

Stellite (r) and Talonite (r) are both nearly 100% metal. The only non metallic compound I can recall in them is carbon.

I think that you meant to say Stellite (r) and Talonite (r) have about 3% Fe in them. This is absolutely true. But the major elemental component is Co, which is highly magnetic.

What confuses people is that Cobalt will not become permanently magnetized, as Fe will. If you alloy Co with the right stuff, however, the alloy has the ability to become permanently magnetized. Rare earths, like Samarium are often used for this. High end stero speakers sometimes use SaCo magnets.

bcaffrey: metal detectors are, indeed, adjustable to different degrees of sensitivity.

dfhoward; yes, a brass belt buckle and a steel knife will cancel each other out, but only if you have a 3.76 oz. Ti billet balanced atop your head when you go through the detector.
wink.gif


Actually, brass, an alloy of copper, tin and zinc, creates eddy currents extremely well. As, of course, does steel, being mostly Fe. The sensitivity on the metal detector you went through was set very low apparently.

Hope this helps. Walt
 
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