Noob blade shop startup advice wanted.

S

skillgannon

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Apr 27, 2009
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I'm planning on getting a esteem grinder. It seems like a good fit for my sub 3k budget. If anyone wants to talk me out of it please do. I don't really want to build one right now though I just want to build a few knifes. Lol. What accessories do I want right away?

I have about a $300 budget for belts as well, what should I get and where?

I also am looking for a heat treat oven that can handle up to large camp knifes.

And lastly I was planning on getting a small stock of 1084 and AEB-L. If other steels would be better it would be great to hear why. Im planning on some outdoor blades for hunting and woods craft but mostly kitchen use. Thus the plan to learn AEB-L well. I will probably send beginning blades out for heat treatment but do want to be able to do some myself.

I know its a big list but help is appreciated.
 
Belts are like knives themselves, everyone has a different opinion. Stick with top brands 3m, norton, etc. get yourself a small wheel attachment with 1/2-1" wheels. Get a Dremel or the like... You'll be happy.

HT oven I can't help, I'm going to end up building my own.
 
For a basic grinder, any make, go with the flat platen. you can do more on the flat platen that on a wheel and you can always add a wheel later. small wheel attachment should be on your short list as has been mentioned. then a rotary platen down the road.
 
I would encourage you to spend your startup budget on the grinder, abrasives, and other hand tools you can't live without like good files, clamps etc, and if you have left overs spend those on materials and consumables like blade stock, handle materials, pins and corbys, good epoxy, good sandpaper, etc.

And send your blades out for heat treat. My reasoning is this: If you're not experienced with heat treating, and you begin doing it yourself right out of the gate, you'll likely limit yourself to things like 1084 if you're smart, due to the ease of the heat treat. If you send your blades out, right out of the gate you can be using anything you like. Second, it's a huge chunk of money to buy into a heat treat furnace, and that money would be more productive to you and your blademaking spent in the other areas I listed above.

Again, this is just my opinion, but I see the "best route" as doing a phased implementation like:
1: Stock removal knives and everything related to it. Grinders, abrasives, filework, handle construction
2: If you want to forge, everything forging here, otherwise go to step 3
3: Heat treating in house


I started heat treating right off the bat because I'm familiar with it from being a machinist and I can use the furnace at work while I convert an old tool room furnace to more advanced controls at home, that I got quite cheap. But I think jumping right into doing your own heat treat is an opportunity cost for most people.
 
My esteem came in around 2500 with the flat platen, 8 inch wheel, double small wheel attachment and tooling arms for all 3. Plus the horizontal flip plate. I use all 3 attachments almost every time I run the thing.
 
How about something free that you will be glad you have? Go to a granite counter top place and ask if you can go dumpster diving for a sink cut out. I got a 12"x16" piece for myself this way (you can see this piece in the picture i posted here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1115736-What-s-going-on-in-your-shop-Show-us-whats-going-on-and-talk-a-bit-about-your-work!?p=16498724#post16498724). Use spray adhesive to stick on the paper of your choice and use it to flatten scales, bolsters, finish flat sanding bevels, checking for warp/ flatness of your blank etc.
 
Thanks guys.
My budget isn't to tight so i have the freedom to get what i need. I have a pretty good woodshop and am a welder by trade and have all of my equipment for that as well. This has been a long time coming so now I'm just going to jump in.

I was hoping for a recommendation for good pricing on belts more than anything.

My plan was to start with 1084 and AEB-L just because of cost until I get my grind lines down. From what I have read heat treating 1084 should be something that I can learn to do without to much trouble. Since I plan on doing kitchen knifes I do want to use stainless and I can afford to lose some AEB-L blades in the learning process. We all know thats going to happen. Im not going to mess with anything to fancy until I'm happy with my grinding and fit and finish.

For the grinder any recommendations for tool rest. They have two for the esteem. One is a bader style i think. Also is there any reason i would want a 8" or 10" wheel or is it better to just go for 12"-14"? My plan is to just grab it all at once so there is only one fight with the wife and not 10. Lol
 
The granite idea is a good one. I saved a piece from when I installed granite counters and find it useful for a number of things
 
get a wilmont lb1000 long block kit, about $900. get a 2hp VFD from dealer's electric(http://dealerselectric.com/230V-sin...sScTree=&pgID=1&SortBy=PriceAsc&GdPageSize=20) about $175 delivered. a 1.5 hp or 2 hp motor should be another $200. so we are at $1300 and you have a variable speed 2x72. add a big wheel attachment if you need one. so we are at less than $2000.
once you have the grinder and work with it, you can make your own tool bars and such, the wilmont takes standard 1 1/2" square arms, thick wall steel tube works fine.
as for belts, once you are set up, get several brands, some ceramic, some zirconia and find what works best for you. Norton, 3M, Deerfos, Hermes, and VSM all make industrial quality belts. what works the best for me might not work for you.
scott
 
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a good option for a grinder is an AKM-77. plug and play with wheel and flat platen reversible. I think the present price is 1,299.00. Love mine. But I am a noob as well. Have not used any other type of grinder though. That price is just with a fixed speed motor. Harbor freight angle grinder with a stack of cut off and grinder wheels. Use all your protective gear.
 
I have revisited thinking about a portaband. The angle grinder is pretty versatile though. The flap discs on the grinder work pretty good for shaping handles.

Is the consensus a porta band is much safer than angle grinder?
 
skillgannon said:
Thanks guys.
My budget isn't to tight so i have the freedom to get what i need. I have a pretty good woodshop and am a welder by trade and have all of my equipment for that as well. This has been a long time coming so now I'm just going to jump in.

I was hoping for a recommendation for good pricing on belts more than anything.

My plan was to start with 1084 and AEB-L just because of cost until I get my grind lines down. From what I have read heat treating 1084 should be something that I can learn to do without to much trouble. Since I plan on doing kitchen knifes I do want to use stainless and I can afford to lose some AEB-L blades in the learning process. We all know thats going to happen. Im not going to mess with anything to fancy until I'm happy with my grinding and fit and finish.

For the grinder any recommendations for tool rest. They have two for the esteem. One is a bader style i think. Also is there any reason i would want a 8" or 10" wheel or is it better to just go for 12"-14"? My plan is to just grab it all at once so there is only one fight with the wife and not 10. Lol
Click to expand...

I spent last week calling several places and comparing 2x72 belt prices. The winner was supergrit. For ceramics in coarse grit they had the best deal. Deerfos brand in coarse grit. next week or next month it may be someone else.
 
Yeah ditch the angle grinder. The only time mine comes out is when I make Damascus and the grinder has a cup wheel on it. Other then that there are quite a few better ways to cut steel and shape handles. Hard to beat an 8" wheel on a grinder with a 36 or 50 grit belt for roughing in a handle.
 
Living The Dream said:
I spent last week calling several places and comparing 2x72 belt prices. The winner was supergrit. For ceramics in coarse grit they had the best deal. Deerfos brand in coarse grit. next week or next month it may be someone else.
Click to expand...

Shopping belts by "price" is only going to leave you frustrated.

Shop by reputation for being good for knife making.

Then choose the best price from that as a starting point.

VSM is a good ceramic belt at a low price point. If willing to pay a bit more for better life of a belt then the Cubitron II 947A are hard to beat. Gators for finishing belts are long lasting and leave a great finish.

I use Hermes for handle work.
 
I get it loud and clear about quality in a belt being a factor. However I bought some high dollar cubitron belts that were kinda whateva. they were 2 and a half times more expensive than some vsms I had. Not 2 and a half times better or long lasting.
 
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