Normalize Stainless?

G L Drew

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Feb 3, 2005
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I have been making knives for over 25 years, mostly from ATS34. A few years ago I started forging and all the heat treating recipes for the high carbon steels I use call for 2 normalizing cycles. Even 52100 that has as much carbon as ATS34. It just occurred me the other day as I was heat treating some ATS34, why don't we put stainless through the normalizing process too?
Any metallurgists out there that can explain that to the curious?
 
I'm not a metallurgist Mr. Drew but I do have a fairly good understanding. My ability to explain it however, is pretty basic :o
I'll do my best ;)

Normalizing is a thermal cycle process(usually~100*F above critical temp) used after forging to reduce grain size, and to get the workpiece ready for austenitizing. With the temps used for forging, blade steel can get mighty screwed up when it comes to internal structure and grain size.

For the most part, knives made using stainless are done using the stock removal method. Most likely the only thermal cycling needed prior to austenitizing would be a stress relieving cycle(done below critical temp). Stainless usually comes from the mill in perfect condition for both.

:)
 
The biggest reason for not normalizing stainless is it doesn't need it. See the post above. For most cutlery stainless steels, normalizing is not recommended by the manufacturers. In many cases, stainless can't be normalized in the sense that knife makers think about it. Since most cutlery grade stainless is air hardening, heating it above critical and allowing it to air cool will harden it. This gives completely different effects than normalizing carbon and low alloy steels.

In the textbook definition of normalizing, the steel is heated high enough to dissolve all the carbides. Many high alloy stainless steels have carbides that will not dissolve until after the alloy begins to melt, so this definition of normailzing is out as well.

In carbon and low alloy steels, normalizing is sometimes used to make the structure more uniform after forging. I say sometimes because it has other uses. With hand hammering, uniformity of forging effort is pretty much impossible. Some areas will get more and others less. Grain size and other features can vary widely. These differences can lead to rapid changes during hardening. For instance, larger grains adjacent to smaller ones will grow rapidly as they absorb the smaller grains. A uniform structure is much more predicable during heating and cooling. Makers of air hardening steels generally recommend annealing and caution against normalizing.
 
From the Crucible data sheet for CPM-154, which I use frequently (I suspect the numbers would be about the same for ATS-34):
Stress Relieving
Annealed Parts: Heat to 1100-1300°F (595-705°C), hold 2
hours, then furnace cool or cool in still air.

Hardened Parts: Heat to 25-50°F (15-30°C) below the
original tempering temperature, hold 2 hours, then furnace
cool or cool in still air.

Would either or both of these steps be beneficial for knives? I grind somewhat aggressively pre-HT and take my edges pretty thin (.015" or so in some cases). To date I've had Peters' do my HT and haven't had any warping or other problems... but if it helps I'll do it. I do have a Paragon kiln that can be programmed for cycles like that. Or, is it not really necessary and just going to boost my electric bill without much benefit?
 
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Unless you add stress to the stainless steel, there is no need to relieve it. Bending, hammering, drop forging, etc. will all cause dislocations, and require stress relief. Merely grinding away some metal won't cause much internal damage. The stress relief step in the HT for stainless takes care of any needed internal adjustments.
 
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