ok i was reading lots last night in these forums and i think im more confused then before i started. should all new bar stock steel mainly 01 and 5160 which is what i ill be using, be normalized? And honestly i only have a vague idead of what this means. which is basicly to soak at certain temp to get smaller grains in final product? am i somewhat right? . Can any1 else plz elaborate a little more in plain english. thanks
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ -
America has reached 250 years, and I am grateful to be here, in the best country in the world. Thank every one of you who helps make this country a better place, those who have gone before and risked it all, and those who've paid the ultimate price to make the United States what we are today.
Happy Birthday America! Let Freedom Ring for all time!
Normalizing 01 and 5160?
- Thread starter Dakota 11
- Start date
polish avenger
Gold Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2002
- Messages
- 1,863
Welcome! Are you forging or stock removing? Have you gotten a copy of Wayne Goddard's '$50 Knife Shop' yet?
-Mark
-Mark
polish avenger
Gold Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2002
- Messages
- 1,863
Mr. Goddard's book is a great reference for the home heat-treater. O-1 and 5160, to my knowledge should come in an annealed, or soft, state. Grind your blade to shape, harden, then temper.
During forging, stresses are induced by the heat/beat/cooling cycles that make 'normalization' necessary to insure that the steel is a homogeneous structure again.
-Mark
During forging, stresses are induced by the heat/beat/cooling cycles that make 'normalization' necessary to insure that the steel is a homogeneous structure again.
-Mark
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2003
- Messages
- 2,361
I would imagine there are as many ways that it could be done as there are folks doing it, but here is the way I do it and why.
Few things can wreak more havoc on the inside of steel than forging, bladesmiths have a lot of odd extra steps we will go through to make the steel "better", but what we are making it better from is the forging. From the mill it is pretty good, then we proceed to beat the snot out of it with very uneven methods, while heating and cooling it in very uneven ways. So needless to say I like to do my normalizing right after the forging.
Industry suggests normalizing at temps much higher than most bladesmiths prefer, after the first sparkler show from a stub that was a half finished blade, smiths begin to fear highers heats. But those heats used in industry have their benefits so I incorporate them into what I do.
So my first normalizing heat will be at around 1600F to get everything into solution in order to even things out. Yes I may get larger grain at this step but I don't care what size the grains are as long as they are all the same size. The subsequent normalizations will be at cooler heats in order to refine things. The next will be around 1500F. and the final heat at or slightly below critical.
The operative word in normalizing is "even". Heating as evenly as possible and cooling as evenly as possible is essential. Carefully heat until the entire blade is all the same color at the same time and then put the tip of the tang in a vice and let the things air cool as evenly as possible. Tossing it on the floor or the anvil is a no-no. The wood ash trick is annealing, not normalizing, the speed at which it cools is irrelevant as long as it is even.
Few things can wreak more havoc on the inside of steel than forging, bladesmiths have a lot of odd extra steps we will go through to make the steel "better", but what we are making it better from is the forging. From the mill it is pretty good, then we proceed to beat the snot out of it with very uneven methods, while heating and cooling it in very uneven ways. So needless to say I like to do my normalizing right after the forging.
Industry suggests normalizing at temps much higher than most bladesmiths prefer, after the first sparkler show from a stub that was a half finished blade, smiths begin to fear highers heats. But those heats used in industry have their benefits so I incorporate them into what I do.
So my first normalizing heat will be at around 1600F to get everything into solution in order to even things out. Yes I may get larger grain at this step but I don't care what size the grains are as long as they are all the same size. The subsequent normalizations will be at cooler heats in order to refine things. The next will be around 1500F. and the final heat at or slightly below critical.
The operative word in normalizing is "even". Heating as evenly as possible and cooling as evenly as possible is essential. Carefully heat until the entire blade is all the same color at the same time and then put the tip of the tang in a vice and let the things air cool as evenly as possible. Tossing it on the floor or the anvil is a no-no. The wood ash trick is annealing, not normalizing, the speed at which it cools is irrelevant as long as it is even.
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2003
- Messages
- 2,361
If I were to do a stock removal knife, this is how I would do it, I would stick with the anneal that the steel had when I got it and make sure not to overheat the stuff when grinding (yes- not to overheat when grinding, even when annealed, there are legitimate reasons for this), and then nail the heating temp before the quench in order to get the best grain condition within. If I didn't deform the steel, or heat it, I have nothing to correct from its original annealed condition.