North Korea Explodes the Big ONE

M

munk

Joined
Mar 22, 2002
Messages
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Well, that's over.
Each of these smaller nations will attempt and suceed in arming themselves in the current age's collateral.
Will the Earth survive this advance?
By the time this is repeated until nearly 'everyone' has the nuke, will the lessons of the first Cold War be repeated and learned?
Or will we just have a big fat mess as Islamic fundementalism, (or pick your poisen) let's one go?

Anyway, historic event. Happy Thanksgiving. Don't let too much radiation get into the soft tissues.

munk
 
As one who sat with his fingers on the keyboard (such as they were at the time) during the original Cold War...this is frightening. Even then, we had a tag hanging on a lever marked "To end all life as we know it, pull this lever".

We came close *way* too many times...

pershing01-1.jpg


Information
http://azmives.tripod.com/pershing.html
http://www.archive.org/details/p1a
http://www.pershingmissile.org/
 
I think the only way to deter Iran from going the same road is to take very harsh action against NK. This would have to include attacking them and destroying their infrastructure (especially military/nuclear), army, and regime before they have the time to deploy thier new toys. To leave this up to the impotent Security Council is suicide. We may as well wave a plate of spagetti at them.

Flame away.
 
To attack them now would be suicide, unfortunately. It's too late. Our opportunity came and went.

First of all, we're overcommitted in Iraq. We don't have the boots on the ground to take and hold N. Korea without first withdrawing from Iraq.

Secondly, to attack them would assure the complete destruction of South Korea and the devastation of Japan. Neither of which would be good, both from a standpoint of loss of life and for our economy. We don't know where they have these new toys hidden. Probably deep in a bunker that we can't kill, unless we use nukes. And we're certainly not desperate enough to use those yet.

Honestly, I think our best option is to use the UN and our own economic clout to decimate their economic infrastructure. The security council may be largely impotent, but after this, we have China and Russia on our side. I think now we could finally pass some substantial sanctions.

Really, what other option do we have? Attack and watch as Soul is blown away, Tokyo goes up in flames, and our advancing troops get a 10-kiloton airburst over their heads as they cross the DMZ? That doesn't sound like fun.

Chris
 
North Korea is already on the verge of chaos and collapse, that's why this happened in the first place. Mr Il is a terrible despot ( i mean that in the literal sense) he's no damn good at leadership. Castro would be a dream leader compared to this idiot.
 
I think it's too late to do much about it now. We'll just have to deal with it. I am not going to speculate on what I think will happen, but I have a lot of fears about what might happen. I will say that I doubt the problem of new countries entering the nuclear capable arena is going to be contained here, other countries will be following suit.
 
It doesn't matter what anyone does. There will now be an arms race. Japan will have to arm. South Korea, I'm not knowledgable enough to list them all; but if a madman like Kim has one, so will all the fence sitters.

Don't look to the UN to stop Iran, either.


munk
 
namaarie said:
To attack them now would be suicide, unfortunately. It's too late. Our opportunity came and went.

First of all, we're overcommitted in Iraq. We don't have the boots on the ground to take and hold N. Korea without first withdrawing from Iraq.

Secondly, to attack them would assure the complete destruction of South Korea and the devastation of Japan. Neither of which would be good, both from a standpoint of loss of life and for our economy. We don't know where they have these new toys hidden. Probably deep in a bunker that we can't kill, unless we use nukes. And we're certainly not desperate enough to use those yet.

Honestly, I think our best option is to use the UN and our own economic clout to decimate their economic infrastructure. The security council may be largely impotent, but after this, we have China and Russia on our side. I think now we could finally pass some substantial sanctions.

Really, what other option do we have? Attack and watch as Soul is blown away, Tokyo goes up in flames, and our advancing troops get a 10-kiloton airburst over their heads as they cross the DMZ? That doesn't sound like fun.

Chris
Click to expand...

I'm going to flatly disagree with your military assessment here Chris. Firstly, because exploding a nuclear device underground does not mean you can weaponize and aim it properly. We know his missiles have aiming, and malfunction issues. I think Japan and S. Korea are at an increasing risk as time goes and they can weaponize these bombs. Secondly, he has reportedly detonated a much smaller yeild bomb than 10 kiloton. And thirdly because our allies in the area would be drawn into the conflict, and with no air support, NK is a sitting duck. A million man army is a big massive hunk of dead meat without air superiority.


Edited to add: The UN Security Council has responded to our request for Chapter 7 sanctions. They responded that they had to break because they p'd their pants. If you rely on the UN, then you aren't self sufficient, and you should plan to live under imposed socialism as soon as our government is done negotiating away our soverignty.
 
I see what you're saying, Andy, and it is sure a valid opinion. Lord knows I don't have access to the kind of intelligence one would need to fully assess the situation. And air superiority would be no question.

Still, though, it's on their turf. They have the largest artillery force in the world. They could level most of Seoul in a few barrages with conventional weapons. I read some assessment by somebody credible once (FAS, RAND?) about how catastrophic the first few hours of a war with them would be. Sure, we'd win. And sure, our radar could pinpoint their artillery and knock it out before long. The problem is the huge amount of damage they could do before we could stop them. And rest assured, with Kim Jung Il at the helm, they would surely target populated areas.

As for deployment of the Bomb, they don't really have to put it on a rocket. If we're invading their country, all they have to do is leave it one in our path along the invasion corridor at the DMZ. Detonate it as we approach. And my statement of 10-kiloton came from a Russian report. The Russians said that their equipment thought it was in the 5-15 kiloton range. I split the difference.

Either way, I don't think war is a good option right now. I think we messed up (and by "we", I mean the last few administrations, the UN, Congress, you name it), but it's too late. We should have bombed the crap out of the reactors while they were still making the enriched uranium or plutonium. The fact is, now they have a nuclear deterrent and they are crazy enough to use it. Kim would never give up rule of his country without hitting that big red button.

Munk is right. Now Japan will build the bomb, South Korea will strengthen its defenses, we will commit more resources there (even though it will hurt considering how thin we're already stretched), China will condemn the action and urge restraint, the UN will be largely inept, but maybe pass some sanctions, and the whole thing will probably just settle back into a nice state of more heavily-armed saber-rattling, brinkmanship, and standoff. I sure hope this doesn't come to war, and I really don't think it will unless they start it.

That's my .02.

Chris
 
aproy1101 said:
I think the only way to deter Iran from going the same road is to take very harsh action against NK. This would have to include attacking them and destroying their infrastructure (especially military/nuclear), army, and regime before they have the time to deploy thier new toys. To leave this up to the impotent Security Council is suicide. We may as well wave a plate of spagetti at them.

Flame away.
Click to expand...

Do you mean the same way as 'we' did to the other nations that have broken international agreements on arms proliferation, and exploded nuclear devices in defiance of international condemnation.........like Israel, India and Pakistan ???
 
I think we should send a couple of stealth bombers and blow the hell out of their arsenal and all of their factories. Heck, we should do the same thing to Iran on the same day.
 
Casares said:
Do you mean the same way as 'we' did to the other nations that have broken international agreements on arms proliferation, and exploded nuclear devices in defiance of international condemnation.........like Israel, India and Pakistan ???
Click to expand...

So you suggest because of our, and the UN's, failure to stop the nations you've mentioned that we should just lay down and allow this nation to do the same. That would only be fair right? Iran too, why not? Well, two wrongs don't make a right my friend. ................................................................. (This section was edited out, but sounded much like one of Yosimety Sam's tyrades.):yawn:


Well said Chris. Good points. I'm still not convinced by the wait and see theory, but you've said it well.;)
 
N. korea having them is bad, but I think the Pakistani nuclear arsenal is a greater risk.

Any day Pakistan could become run by fundementalists. Either by change of heart of the President or military coup.

Just as many of the Taliban were once heros of the resistance against the Russians & thier puppet goverment,

One day the same may be true of Pakistan, thier President stays pro western for the time being, but maybe not forever, & who comes after him?

Spiral
 
aproy1101 said:
So you suggest because of our, and the UN's, failure to stop the nations you've mentioned that we should just lay down and allow this nation to do the same. That would only be fair right? Iran too, why not? Well, two wrongs don't make a right my friend. .................................................................

Irony is just wasted on some people.
Click to expand...
 
S. Brown said:
I think we should send a couple of stealth bombers and blow the hell out of their arsenal and all of their factories. Heck, we should do the same thing to Iran on the same day.
Click to expand...

Yep.:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

We can alliterate later, now is the time for action. Irony is not important right now.
 
spiraltwista said:
N. korea having them is bad, but I think the Pakistani nuclear arsenal is a greater risk.

Any day Pakistan could become run by fundementalists. Either by change of heart of the President or military coup.

One day the same may be true of Pakistan, thier President stays pro western for the time being, but maybe not forever, & who comes after him?

Spiral
Click to expand...

This is all true.

Musharef in Pakistan is NOT really well loved by the population. He could easily be overthrown by an Islamic Fundamentalist coup and the nukes would be in their hands.

Kim in NK want's to say in power. Considering that the US has toppled 2 gov'ts recently, if you were a tin pot dictator somewhere wouldn't YOU want the bomb?

I personally think that the whole thing is a sham.

Kim will never hit the US, unless maybe we invade or attack NK first. But his nuclear program is a good way to try to extort more money out of the west.

Bush would never attack NK because we don't have the troops and they could give us a run for our money. HOWEVER the HUGE NK army and the spectre of them hitting a US with a missle is a GREAT thing to use to justify a lot of the weapons systems from the cold war era, AND STAR WARS!!!!

I think Bush's whole non engagement and demonization of NK was all about derailing the negotiations with them so he could channel more defense $$ to his contributors:thumbup: With the US fighting terror a lot of the cold war weapons were being downsized so this opens up a whole new revenue stream for them.
 
I don't think NK wants war with the US. I do think they are interested in expanding their own borders though. By all accounts, those people are starving. I think they will use the nukes to sell for profit, extort money or grab territory somewhere. Whatever they think they can get away with. Attacking the US directly is probably not part of their plan.
 
How about we send a few freighter's full of U.S. nukes over to Japan and sic them and their Bushido on N. Korea? While we were at it, we could remind Israel of the U.S. nukes they already have and sic them on Iran. I don't see why the National Guard has to carry the whole ball on this and I never did see how tearing down the Berlin Wall made America the International Behavior Police.
 
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