Norton crystolon

Joined
Nov 7, 2013
Messages
465
Picked one of these up for heavy regrinding, gotta say these things are extremely fast. Reprofiled a sog seal pup from 30 degrees to 20 in about 2 hours vs the 8 it took with my 220 waterstone (which is the fastest cutting coarse stone I've ever used up to this point). It's even significantly faster than my 325 diamond. The fine side left a serviceable edge able to easily slice paper, but it was still pretty rough. Stone never clogged even though I only rinsed it once and used it dry. for 20 bucks imo it's hard to beat for heavy sharpening or reprofiling.
 
Is my all time favorite and the one I'd choose if I had to pick one stone for the rest of my life. If used with oil the reclaimed grit makes a very serviceable stropping compound.

They will dish if one doesn't move around on the surface.

With only that stone, some oil, and a sheet of paper or other suitable strop surface, one can get a crazy sharp edge - enough to tree top some coarse hair or even shave, provided some hot lather is available:)

Martin
 
That's exactly what I've been saying as well. A diamond is no faster. If it is it's slight. I use mine with oil when at home or in camp but have used it with water. It's only drawback is it sloughs off grit and will dish. Requiring leveling. Especially the coarse side. Still, it works very well and is FAR more economical than a diamond plate. DM
 
That's exactly what I've been saying as well. A diamond is no faster. If it is it's slight. I use mine with oil when at home or in camp but have used it with water. It's only drawback is it sloughs off grit and will dish. Requiring leveling. Especially the coarse side. Still, it works very well and is FAR more economical than a diamond plate. DM

Yeah but not as bad as a waterstone, and that's why it's so fast, silicon carbide is very friable and constantly breaks off into new sharp shards.
 
I find that where most folks are lacking in their sharpener selection it's at the coarse end of the spectrum. Everyone should have one of these stones or similar, in my opinion.
 
I have not used mine in a while since I have been doing my reprofiling with my 1x32 belt sander but still, one of my favourite stones ever. I still have not tried them with water yet, only with oil.
 
I have not used mine in a while since I have been doing my reprofiling with my 1x32 belt sander but still, one of my favourite stones ever. I still have not tried them with water yet, only with oil.

Dry seems best for quick grinding, even though it loads with metal and grit, it doesn't actually slow down like with an india or arkie because the filings fall in between the sharp exposed points. I avoid oil on all stones, it slows the cutting down and leaves a less acute edge in my experience, dish soap and water works best IMO, it smooths the cutting action for a more refined edge and a toothbrush will easily scrub the stone clean. I do this on all oil stones, india, arkansas etc. Oil sucks.
 
2 hours or worse 8 hours on a coarse stone? I don't care what knife it is that is way too much time at coarse grits.
 
2 hours or worse 8 hours on a coarse stone? I don't care what knife it is that is way too much time at coarse grits.

I was removing a ton of metal, backing it up a whole 10 degrees on a thick blade. I suppose if i didn't take several breaks it would've been faster. It was about 600 passes per side, last time I reprofiled another sog that thick on my waterstone it was about 1400 per side, but again I took a lot of breaks so the time shouldn't count, same amount of angle change. I resharpened a very dull kitchen knife to compare it to the waterstone and it was about 3x as fast, going from completely blunt to turning a bur after 60 passes per side. Average on a knife that dull is about 180 passes per side on a 220 waterstone, 240 or even more on a coarse india.
 
Do you make single passes or "scrub" the stone?
 
Yepimonfire, Martin,

I have similar (not Norton) stone, purchased off ACE (but not labelled as ACE). Your posts inspire me to try out the 52100 BCMW shaving blade that hasn't been put an edge yet. It's edge now is approx 0.8mm thick :eek:

The last I tried with DMT 325 grit (card size), it took forever, and I gave up. I'm not sure if it's Sic or Alumox though.
 
Dry seems best for quick grinding, even though it loads with metal and grit, it doesn't actually slow down like with an india or arkie because the filings fall in between the sharp exposed points. I avoid oil on all stones, it slows the cutting down and leaves a less acute edge in my experience, dish soap and water works best IMO, it smooths the cutting action for a more refined edge and a toothbrush will easily scrub the stone clean. I do this on all oil stones, india, arkansas etc. Oil sucks.

That's been my experience as well. I never use oil, haven't for many many years. Several years ago when I fond my old boy scout stone in the attic, Iused it just for laughs, and found how fast and effective it was, I just went back to using the old stone dry as we learned to use from our scout master. Just dust off the stone wen done and strop blade on the back of a belt, and you have a razor sharp edge in minutes. :thumb up:

Oil just makes a mess, and helps sell more cans of the stuff so the company profit margin goes goes up.
 
I use mine for the same thing. Works crazy well.

I boiled it in soapy water several times to get rid of the preloaded oil. Works awesome !

In my trademark spirit of improvisation and cheapness, i will lap it on a smooth sidewalk when it dishes. This has always worked perfectly fine for me.

Anyone know how comparable in composition the ACE hardware stones are ?

Ive used them several times and they seem to be highly comparable at a third of the price.
 
Yep, true, they wear down nothing like a water stone. Which is why I stay away from water stones. Just common sense.
HeavyHands, wrote a few years back some details on these stones and found they are different than the heco en Mexico and made in the U.S. grade Norton stones. Perhaps you can search and find that topic as it would lend some relevance here. DM
 
I use mine for the same thing. Works crazy well.

I boiled it in soapy water several times to get rid of the preloaded oil. Works awesome !

In my trademark spirit of improvisation and cheapness, i will lap it on a smooth sidewalk when it dishes. This has always worked perfectly fine for me.

Anyone know how comparable in composition the ACE hardware stones are ?

Ive used them several times and they seem to be highly comparable at a third of the price.

The ACE stones very comparable. Mine is close but not quite as refined as the Crystalon. The coarse side of the ACE is faster, the fine side of the Crystalon leaves a finer edge.

It never fails to amuse/impress me the variety of impressions on this topic. Am not saying anyone is wrong or right, I can only go by my observations - but I see a large improvement in edge quality and long term stone quality when I use with oil compared to water, water based materials, or dry. While the SiC stone will recover from being used dry or with water, in my hands there is always some loading and/or glazing and this hampers the stones ability to grind clean and to cleanly remove the smaller burrs. No such issue with oil, and it makes possible reclaiming the spent grit for further refinement.

As any given stone gets more coarse the need for any oil/water/etc reduces - I have a Norton boat stone that appears about 60-80 grit and it works fine dry.
 
The ACE stones very comparable. Mine is close but not quite as refined as the Crystalon. The coarse side of the ACE is faster, the fine side of the Crystalon leaves a finer edge.

It never fails to amuse/impress me the variety of impressions on this topic. Am not saying anyone is wrong or right, I can only go by my observations - but I see a large improvement in edge quality and long term stone quality when I use with oil compared to water, water based materials, or dry. While the SiC stone will recover from being used dry or with water, in my hands there is always some loading and/or glazing and this hampers the stones ability to grind clean and to cleanly remove the smaller burrs. No such issue with oil, and it makes possible reclaiming the spent grit for further refinement.

As any given stone gets more coarse the need for any oil/water/etc reduces - I have a Norton boat stone that appears about 60-80 grit and it works fine dry.

Highly respect your experienced opinion.

My perception has been the exact opposite, however. With my use, the stone would load terribly until i finally got the oil out of it.

Course i dont use it dry, i use soapy water. But it just sinks into the porous surface anyway, so it may as well not be there.

Strange.

I wonder what variables could affect this. Did you degrease the stone before trying water or dry ? Mine loaded when i used it without oil because it came pre oiled. I learned on here to boil it, and that improved performance exponentially.

Bleh, pardon the incoherent repetition. Runnin on fumes lol.
 
Yep, true, they wear down nothing like a water stone. Which is why I stay away from water stones. Just common sense.
HeavyHands, wrote a few years back some details on these stones and found they are different than the heco en Mexico and made in the U.S. grade Norton stones. Perhaps you can search and find that topic as it would lend some relevance here. DM

Because not all waterstones are the same this is simply an uninformed statement. I really don't find my Fine Norton SiC stone to be any faster than the much finer 1000 grit Shapton Pro, and if we compare wear rates the Norton wears faster than the 1k Shapton. Do the stones have pros and cons that give one an advantage over the other? Sure, but then were being specific and not making blanket statements about a whole group of things.
 
Highly respect your experienced opinion.

My perception has been the exact opposite, however. With my use, the stone would load terribly until i finally got the oil out of it.

Course i dont use it dry, i use soapy water. But it just sinks into the porous surface anyway, so it may as well not be there.

Strange.

I wonder what variables could affect this. Did you degrease the stone before trying water or dry ? Mine loaded when i used it without oil because it came pre oiled. I learned on here to boil it, and that improved performance exponentially.

Bleh, pardon the incoherent repetition. Runnin on fumes lol.

I initially formed this opinion on stones that didn't come with a pre-load of oil or boiled. I always shied away from oil because I felt it was too messy. I also noticed over time my stones would slowly degrade in performance - this being used with soapy water or dry. Lapping with loose grit would restore them and then a slow decline. Hmmm. tried it with oil and low and behold, the stone surface looked and felt smoother and more uniform after use, and my ability to cleanly nip the burr without a chase improved - better abrasive potential at lower pressure = no glazing, sharper abrasives and for me a sharper edge off the same surface. When I used water based materials I could always tell where the wear patterns were - used with oil the entire surface looks and feels the same after use.

This effect really kicks in on my SiC stones, but is apparent on my AlumOx as well. I use enough oil that the stone has a film on top. If it dries out in use I'll add another few drops to keep the junk suspended unless I'm down to the final passes. If I'm still grinding, there's still oil on the surface. On longer jobs I'll add some oil, agitate with fingertip to suspend all the junk, wipe with rag, re-apply and keep going. Overall I find the oil to create less mess thana lot of water. I also use a relatively short scrubbing pass, so the oil tends to stay put. If I were using long sweeping unidirectional passes, the oil would be squeegied off a lot faster, so some of this must play a role in perceptions.

I boiled the oil out of my first India stone and used with soapy water as was my habit at the time - I also boiled the oil out of my Crystalon stone when I first got it. For a while, after I started "experimenting" with oil, I was bouncing back and forth between soapy water (no need to boil the old oil out if there's soap in the mix) and oil. Noticed the thing almost immediately became discolored. Bought another one and used it with oil without boiling the pre-lube and the surface is always like new and no discoloring = no loading.

I can and have used my SiC stones without oil, but never by choice. I used to bring a small Norton SiC puck when camping and just use with water - works fine, but if I'm around home I'll use it with oil whenever possible. In my opinion, there's a reason all these large mfgs recommend and sell honing oil for use with their vitreous stones, and none sell soapy water additive or rubber blocks/brushes, etc for use with their stones, it isn't because they bank a lot of $ selling small cans of oil.

Again, it works either way but for me there's no doubt which works better.
 
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