Norton Quality?

[THG]

I just got a cheap $6 Norton stone from Home Depot. The stone has a very significant concavity ("convexity" on the other side; it's a combo stone).

I understand that I bought a very cheap stone, and I'm aware that their other stones are pricier. I'm guessing that I "got what I paid for," but I have to ask if I can expect better quality from one of their more expensive stones. I have no problem with this stone right now; I'm just wondering whether I should expect better from their better models.

 

[eKretz]

I'd say it depends on how "significant" the condition is. For $6 you can't expect much, and pretty much all stones need to be flattened, so no big deal really. It is a simple matter to flatten a whetstone using a diamond honing stone.

 

[Jason B.]

The Sic and India and economy stone (the one you have) are all very close in grit, all stones are also good quality so I'm not exactly sure what your question refers to. You might get a little better edge from the India and the Sic will cut harder metals but besides that I don't think you will find that much better of a edge.

 

[THG]

I'd say it depends on how "significant" the condition is. For $6 you can't expect much, and pretty much all stones need to be flattened, so no big deal really. It is a simple matter to flatten a whetstone using a diamond honing stone.

It's pretty noticeable. If I put the stone flat on a table, it makes quite an arch.

The Sic and India and economy stone (the one you have) are all very close in grit, all stones are also good quality so I'm not exactly sure what your question refers to. You might get a little better edge from the India and the Sic will cut harder metals but besides that I don't think you will find that much better of a edge.

I'm talking about the flatness of the stone. I'm not concerned with the ability of the stone to cut. Any finer stones that I get will mainly be used for razor honing, so I am looking at getting a stone that will be as flat as possible.

 

[j3jymann]

Diamond sharpening stones are normally quite flat.

If you don't like using those on your knife I'm fairly certain you could flatten out your stone with them.

 

[THG]

The Sic and India and economy stone (the one you have) are all very close in grit, all stones are also good quality so I'm not exactly sure what your question refers to. You might get a little better edge from the India and the Sic will cut harder metals but besides that I don't think you will find that much better of a edge.

I remember we've discussed flattening other stones using diamonds stones before, but I can't remember what your consensus was. If I got a Norton 4000/8000, would I be able to "flatten" it using a DMT XXC? I've never done any flattening before, so I'm completely new to this concept.

Diamond sharpening stones are normally quite flat.[/IMG]

If you don't like using those on your knife I'm fairly certain you could flatten out your stone with them.

I use diamond for my knives, and it works well. I think some of the diamonds have worn off of the edges of the plates, though, so it's not working out all that well for razors.

 

[Jason B.]

Oh okay,

The India I believe is the one you would want, from what I've read its difficult to dish.

FYI, the sidewalk and a little water quickly fixes your stone (its how I flatten mine)

 

[Jason B.]

The XXC is perfect in that role but for waterstones a nagura is needed for the finishing stones to smooth the surface, it will leave them pretty chewed up after the XXC and doesn't feel right when sharpening.

Are you looking into waterstones too?

 

[THG]

The XXC is perfect in that role but for waterstones a nagura is needed for the finishing stones to smooth the surface, it will leave them pretty chewed up after the XXC and doesn't feel right when sharpening.

Are you looking into waterstones too?

I'm looking at getting a Norton 4000/8000. Would you use the sidewalk to flatten this, too? And if I could, would the DMT XC be better anyway? How does the 4000/8000 compare to Spyderco UF, by the way, in terms of putting a finishing edge on a blade?

I'm not interested in the Naniwa Japanese waterstones, though.

 

[Jason B.]

The sidewalk treatment was for the economy stone, use the diamond on the waterstone.

Norton waterstones are a little to generic for my liking and are not true to their numbers. They are graded similar to the DMT hones with the 8k only being 3 Micron instead of 1 Micron like most other stones. Will you be using them for razors, knives, or both?

A spyderco UF is like a 10k waterstone.

 

[Mossyhorn]

For $6.00 you're not going to get a great sharpening aid. The model you got is for sharpening shop tools. Spend a few extra bucks and get a Norton FB-8 Product #85625-6 .
It's an 8"x2"x1" fine India stone. Norton also make great sandpaper for convexing an edge.

 

[Dorito Monk]

I use their water stones and haven't had any complaints thus far. They're more expensive than their india stones but they're quite serviceable.

 

[THG]

Will you be using them for razors, knives, or both?

I will definitely need them for razors, and I'll use them for knives, too. The emphasis is on razor sharpening, though; the knives will take what they can get.

A spyderco UF is like a 10k waterstone.

At the moment, I go from DMT EF to Spyderco UF. Would it be a good idea to use a 4000/8000 stone as an "in between?"

Also, I haven't had my Spyderco UF for a long time. Does this stone need flattening, too?

 

[David Martin]

I've not seen a Norton combination stone which needed lapping nor my Spyderco ceramic. But I've heard of person getting them. I've not seen the ones at Home Depot selling for 6$. I purchase the India combination stones from internet dealers and have not had that problem. Sharpening for shaving I'd just use your Spyderco ceramic stone. The first time it will take 40-50 strokes on each side but to maintain it after that it will take less. I think you have a good strop to keep the edge in good shaving condition between shaves. I've found I can go for months merely using my strop after each shave before the razor needs any stone work. Take it like 30 strops between each shave once it gets to a point were this number of strokes doesn't give a good close shave its time to take it to your ceramic stone for a little work and start over. DM

 

[THG]

I've not seen a Norton combination stone which needed lapping nor my Spyderco ceramic. But I've heard of person getting them. I've not seen the ones at Home Depot selling for 6$. I purchase the India combination stones from internet dealers and have not had that problem. Sharpening for shaving I'd just use your Spyderco ceramic stone. The first time it will take 40-50 strokes on each side but to maintain it after that it will take less.

Every time I take a sharp razor that could use a touch-up to my Spyderco UF, it becomes a razor that needs a sharpening. I don't understand it, since I can get my knives hair-splitting sharp on this same stone.

The thing that concerns me about this stone is the hash-mark finish pattern. There are some sections of the stone where the finish looks like a bunch of hash-marks, and this is the only area of the stone that gets any metal when sharpening a razor. Do you think that my UF stone could use a lapping? If so, what would be a good stone to do it with? I have a DMT XXC (8x3), DMT XC (6x2), and a DMT F (11.5x2.5) at my disposal.

 

[David Martin]

Ok, I see. It sounds like you do need to lap it. I did mine using a coarse and fine DMT. But this really takes the diamonds off. So, I'd use sand paper on level blocks of 9-10" length and the width of the stone. Start with a 2-300g then 600g and finish with the 800-1K grit. Its cheap and you won't mess up you expensive stones. This also changes the surface to a much finer 'feeling' stone which will eventually wear off and your stone should come out to within .0005" level. Now, hoping things come out right, then rinse and put your razor on it for 20-30 strokes. Should things still look good go to the strop for the same amount and you should have it ready to shave. This whole process may only take 1 hour +- . Let us know in the shaving Forum how it shaves. DM

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I don't think sandpaper will touch the ceramic (I've tried). If you're considering lapping your UF ceramic, do it with your DMT XC or XXC. I used a DMT Coarse to lap a Spyderco DoubleStuff hone (medium and fine). It definitely flattened the hone, BUT the finish left was much finer than previously existed, and both the medium and fine sides were left at the same finish, so far as I can tell. So, before undertaking such a task, consider the risk of altering the finish of your UF.

If you make sure to use LIGHT PRESSURE, while lapping, you won't damage your diamond plates. And make sure to keep them WET, so the swarf doesn't clog the hone. It does remove some diamond, but the DMT plates can handle that. In some respects, when I lapped my DoubleStuff hone, it left the DMT (Duo-Sharp 8" bench hone) in better shape, with a more uniform finish. I sort of equate the result with the normal 'break-in' that happens with new diamond plates. They start out kind of rough & bumpy, but get more uniform with use.

Having said that, my DoubleStuff hone is still quite good. In some respects, I'd say it's better with the finer finish (and flat). Leaves a higher polish on the edge, and does a great job removing burrs & wire edges. Not as aggressive though, anymore.

 

[THG]

This also changes the surface to a much finer 'feeling' stone which will eventually wear off and your stone should come out to within .0005" level. Now, hoping things come out right, then rinse and put your razor on it for 20-30 strokes. Should things still look good go to the strop for the same amount and you should have it ready to shave. This whole process may only take 1 hour +- . Let us know in the shaving Forum how it shaves. DM

I'll probably get to this next week sometime. Thanks for the info.

I don't think sandpaper will touch the ceramic (I've tried). If you're considering lapping your UF ceramic, do it with your DMT XC or XXC.

Any preference for either of those two? Will a finer DMT leave my UF with a finer finish?

I used a DMT Coarse to lap a Spyderco DoubleStuff hone (medium and fine). It definitely flattened the hone, BUT the finish left was much finer than previously existed,

You're talking about the finish on the Spyderco stone was finer than previously? Isn't that a good thing?

Thanks for the info.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Any preference for either of those two? Will a finer DMT leave my UF with a finer finish?

I'm betting it will. I've only tried this using a Coarse DMT on the Med/Fine DoubleStuff hone, and I've read from others here, using XC or XXC will leave a correspondingly 'coarser' finish on the ceramic. Keep in mind, it'll still be difficult to predict how that will compare to the existing finish on your UF hone. It'll still be very fine, in all likelihood, but it's a question of degrees of fineness. It may come out a bit 'coarser' than Spyderco's UF spec, or it may go the other way. I noticed a big change in mine, which started as a medium/fine hone, but resulted in a finish which was even finer (on both sides) than the previous 'fine' grit. How that compares to Spyderco's UF spec, I don't know (I don't have one of the UF hones).

You're talking about the finish on the Spyderco stone was finer than previously? Isn't that a good thing?

It may or may not be a good thing. Depends on what you expect (want) as the result. If your only issue with your current UF is the flatness (or lack thereof), but the grit (finish) is good as it is, then altering that finish may not be good, either way. It's up to you. It's a good bet the finish will change, as a result of the lapping.

 

[David Martin]

I'm sure the finish on your ceramic will change toward finer 'feeling' (you cannot change the grit size). I used a lot of water when lapping mine and it took a lot off the diamond. Perhaps lighter pressure will help. At any rate use your coarse until it clogs then go to the fine until it clogs Twice rinse inbetween. Because the water becomes like plaster paris full of slurry. Scrap this off using a popsicle stick and with a small jar, save it for future use on a strop or other stone as it is good diamond slurry. Use perhaps 70-90 strokes each time. Let us know how it turns out. I went ahead and bought me another diamond stone to replace the coarse afterwards. It sounds like yours really needs it . Examine each side close, moving a straight edge down it while looking into a light to determine which is the most off and only do one side. Then mark it with a dot in the corner with a magic marker so you'll easily know which side to use for your razor. DM