Norton Quality?

[Obsessed with Edges]

I'm sure the finish on your ceramic will change toward finer 'feeling' (you cannot change the grit size). I used a lot of water when lapping mine and it took a lot off the diamond. Perhaps lighter pressure will help. At any rate use your coarse until it clogs then go to the fine until it clogs Twice rinse inbetween. Because the water becomes like plaster paris full of slurry. Scrap this off using a popsicle stick and with a small jar, save it for future use on a strop or other stone as it is good diamond slurry. Use perhaps 70-90 strokes each time. Let us know how it turns out. I went ahead and bought me another diamond stone to replace the coarse afterwards. It sounds like yours really needs it . Examine each side close, moving a straight edge down it while looking into a light to determine which is the most off and only do one side. Then mark it with a dot in the corner with a magic marker so you'll easily know which side to use for your razor. DM

David,

What brand/type of ceramic stone did you lap, with your diamond plate? Reason I ask is, your reference to the 'slurry' becoming like 'plaster of paris' sort of throws me. I haven't seen that much slurry come off of my ceramic hones, when I lapped them. Certainly not enough to totally clog the diamond hone. Just a little water on the surface of the diamond plate, is all I needed to keep the swarf flushed off. Maybe I'm mis-interpreting what you meant, but it does make me wonder.

Spyderco's grit size is constant, across the range (Med/Fine/UF) of their ceramic hones. They rely on the 'surface prep' of the hone, as finished at the factory, to determine the aggressiveness and the polish produced for each grit. I assume this is due to different binders for the grit, depending upon the grit range. This is why I cautioned as to which diamond grit to use, as it will change the (effective) grit, in terms of the final finish and performance.

Thanks.

 

[David Martin]

Spyderco fine ceramic stone. DM

 

[Jason B.]

Lapping a ceramic stone is not the most fun thing to do but it can make big improvements if done right. Lapping the ceramic can only be done with diamonds and because both are some of the hardest materials known to man its going to take some time. As David said watch the slurry build-up, you don't want the stones to suction together because that's when you start looking diamonds. I'd maybe suggest doing it under running water. Another thing you want to watch out for on the white stones is black streaks, it usually happens when you apply to much force or rub a edge too hard. The black streaks are diamonds being ripped from the stone.

If you do lap your ceramic know you run a high risk of damaging the diamond plates. I would also only attempt it if the ceramic is fairly true in flatness, if not then it could be a project you regret starting.

If it was me I would use the ceramic for stainless steels and reserve waterstones for the razors and carbon steels. I'd add a arashyama 6k and a natural finishing stone like the Awase To from japanwoodworker.

 

[THG]

If you do lap your ceramic know you run a high risk of damaging the diamond plates. I would also only attempt it if the ceramic is fairly true in flatness, if not then it could be a project you regret starting.

I'm fairly confident that the stone is flat. I'm not really wanting to do this with my XC stone, though (since it's smaller and I get the feeling that it seems easier for diamonds to come off of this stone.) I'd try it with my XXC stone since the diamond-plate bond seems really tough, but will this stone leave a Spyderco UF with a finish that's worse off compared to before the lapping?

If it was me I would use the ceramic for stainless steels and reserve waterstones for the razors and carbon steels. I'd add a arashyama 6k and a natural finishing stone like the Awase To from japanwoodworker.

I'm thinking this might be the best solution after all... The UF works great on my knives, so I might just use it for knives and get a completely separate set for razors.

As always, thanks for your advice.

 

[Jason B.]

Yeah, I'd leave the ceramic as is too.

Send me a email when you get a chance I got a little offer for ya.


BTW, you would use a fine diamond, any coarse would be counter productive.

 

[THG]

Alright, now I've got another question. I've flattened this Norton "Economy" stone and lapped it. The surface of both sides is so smooth now that I can see reflections under bright light.

So I tried sharpening a knife with it, but it seemed like the blade was just skating on the surface of the stone. The knife did get sharper, but I really can't tell if any grinding action is going on, or if what I'm doing is similar to steeling on a very smooth surface.

The steel I've tried sharpening on is VG-10, by the way.

So is this behavior characteristic of this type of stone?

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Alright, now I've got another question. I've flattened this Norton "Economy" stone and lapped it. The surface of both sides is so smooth now that I can see reflections under bright light.

So I tried sharpening a knife with it, but it seemed like the blade was just skating on the surface of the stone. The knife did get sharper, but I really can't tell if any grinding action is going on, or if what I'm doing is similar to steeling on a very smooth surface.

The steel I've tried sharpening on is VG-10, by the way.

So is this behavior characteristic of this type of stone?

That sounds consistent with what I'd mentioned earlier, about the surface finish changing when lapping ceramic stones. Your 'economy' hone may very well be dependent on the factory finish, for determining how aggressive it cuts. You mentioned it still made your blade sharper, so it's still 'grinding', albeit at a slower & finer rate.

What did you flatten & lap it with?

 

[THG]

That sounds consistent with what I'd mentioned earlier, about the surface finish changing when lapping ceramic stones. Your 'economy' hone may very well be dependent on the factory finish, for determining how aggressive it cuts. You mentioned it still made your blade sharper, so it's still 'grinding', albeit at a slower & finer rate.

What did you flatten & lap it with?

I flattened it on the sidewalk and then lapped it some with the DMT XXC. The finish has changed, but I'm not sure if there's supposed to be more grinding action.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I flattened it on the sidewalk and then lapped it some with the DMT XXC. The finish has changed, but I'm not sure if there's supposed to be more grinding action.

You might try using it for a while. Although it's different now, you might find you like it as a 're-purposed' stone, perhaps to be used for finer finishing chores. I was initially disappointed, after I lapped my DoubleStuff ceramic hone, getting similar results to what you've experienced (much 'glassier' when done). But I've come to like it. It's much better at removing burrs, and produces a better polish on the edge. I use it with more confidence now, so that's a positive result.

The upside is, yours is not an expensive stone. If it were me, just out of intellectual curiosity, I might even try re-lapping it just on the concrete, without the XXC diamond finishing step. It might behave in yet a different manner. This is a great way to figure out for yourself, what affects/changes it, and how it'll work for you. It's a good learning opportunity, especially for the $6 invested. Make the most of it.

 

[THG]

Alright, now I've got another question. I've flattened this Norton "Economy" stone and lapped it. The surface of both sides is so smooth now that I can see reflections under bright light.

So I tried sharpening a knife with it, but it seemed like the blade was just skating on the surface of the stone. The knife did get sharper, but I really can't tell if any grinding action is going on, or if what I'm doing is similar to steeling on a very smooth surface.

The steel I've tried sharpening on is VG-10, by the way.

So is this behavior characteristic of this type of stone?

That sounds consistent with what I'd mentioned earlier, about the surface finish changing when lapping ceramic stones. Your 'economy' hone may very well be dependent on the factory finish, for determining how aggressive it cuts. You mentioned it still made your blade sharper, so it's still 'grinding', albeit at a slower & finer rate.

What did you flatten & lap it with?

Interesting story: it works much better right off of the sidewalk. It's way too smooth after the XXC stone; blades just skate along the surface. The stone is working quite well just after the sidewalk.

 

[Ankerson]

The Sic and India and economy stone (the one you have) are all very close in grit, all stones are also good quality so I'm not exactly sure what your question refers to. You might get a little better edge from the India and the Sic will cut harder metals but besides that I don't think you will find that much better of a edge.

I have a video uploading up today slicing TP and popping hair off an 8"x 3" Norton Fine Silicone Carbide stone, The stone costs less than $14.

That's ZDP-189 and it took me all of 5 mins to get it there, no stropping, all I did was knock the burr off with a ceramic and I was done.

 

[M0NK]

I just got a cheap $6 Norton stone from Home Depot. The stone has a very significant concavity ("convexity" on the other side; it's a combo stone).

I understand that I bought a very cheap stone, and I'm aware that their other stones are pricier. I'm guessing that I "got what I paid for," but I have to ask if I can expect better quality from one of their more expensive stones. I have no problem with this stone right now; I'm just wondering whether I should expect better from their better models.

just a quick note on stones. no matter how much money you spend on a stone, the manufacturer will always recommend lapping it to ensure true flatness. doesn't matter if its norton, king, shapton etc.

the way to do this is draw a grid on the face of the stone with a pencil. then start lapping, you will notice that some of the lines disappear first, this is your guide as to what is high or low on the stone. for most EDC knives, absolute flatness is not as essential as it would be for say, straight shaving razor or woodworking tools.

also remember when sharpening with the stone to use "all of it" meaning swipe at different spots all along the surface of the stone. this will help a more even wear to the face.

 

[Jameson]

I have the same stone, which I use on my german kitchen knives (not japanese unless I have to remove ALOT) and I use it dry or with water. They cut fast, both grits on mine (deep blue/purple on one side and a lighter but still dark blue opposite). Be careful what your using them on as well.

Sharpening freehand on this stone can give a shaving edge, I go from this (I only use it really when a knife need significant metal removal due to a chip/regrind bevels) freehand to 13-15* then finish on the sharpmaker at 15 with a diamond rod leaned up against it (in grooves of triangle hones) to set an even bevel and get a small burr running the length both ways. It shaves after each step, significantly easier after each of course. Then I finish the kitchen blades to 3 micron with textured strops, then maybe a few plain leather passes. A touch up on a knife is a few swipes on the strop, or sharpmaker brown/whites 5 strokes a side on each.

I do deburr in-between steps on either cork or through leather. Sometimes I will go 3-1-.5 micron to get a full mirror, but exceedingly think that the extra 20 minutes is not worth the effort. 3 micron lasts longer between strop/touchup.... Again, the $5 stone from home depot can give good results. MINE WAS DISHED TOO, but they wear kinds fast if your grinding at 60hrc+ knives, and to the sidewalk they go to be flattened when they get really bad!

JC