Not only How but Where to Survive?

Old CW4

Old CW4

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Always a lot of good info in this section about equipment, fire making, shelters, etc., for survival. However, IMO, not enough on WHERE to survive long term.

I've operated and 'lived' in just about every type of terrain around the world, mountains, desert, jungle, forest, swamps, and so on. Seems to me that if your local area is not in a temperate zone conducive to survival, a major part of your planning should be about the process of migrating to an area where you have a better chance.

IMO, the best survival 'world' following a major castrophe would be an area where you're near a seacoast bordered by mountains/hills and forest. You would then have the opportunity of harvesting both zones for the vital necessities---food, shelter, potable water, and fuel.

I've hunted, camped, and been on long term operations in high mountains. They're not good for long term survival unless you get there in warm weather and then spend many weeks (or months) scavenging for and preserving food plus building a shelter for winter when you have to contend with many feet of snow and super cold temps.

Desert country isn't good either. Marginal for food, water can be hard to find and sources undependable. etc.

Northern or aboreal forest. Same as high mountains, colder than hell in winter, most meat animals migrated or hibernating, and not much in the way of plant food when it's cold and frozen. Perhaps there would be fish if you can chop through a foot or two of ice so you can fish....?

Southern forests to include marsh and swamp land. Ah, now we get down to areas where nature's bounty kicks in. Much more termperate in winter and animal, fish, amphibian, and bird life abundant and available year around plus really bountiful in warm weather. Personally, I would gradually migrate south and east. I lived in the forests of the Ozarks as a kid and it doesn't take much woods lore to be able to stay fat year round in that country.

Bottom line. Along with all the knowledge necessary to build fires and shelters, set traps and snares, identity edible plants, etc., I suggest we should also acquire and study books concerning all the varied 'zones' of our big country and the survival potential of each.

I currently live in west central New Mexico a few miles south of Albuquerque. I have desert, forest, and high mountains within hiking distance. I've lived here and studied this area for many years. I conclude that the long term food supply, especially with others competing for it, isn't good. This country where I live may be 'big and wide open' by eastern standards but a hell of a lot of it doesn't produce much in the way of animal or plant food and it can be a long, long trek between sources of water. So, if the SHTF in a big way and I survive, I'm migrating east and south.

Comments please.....?
 
You'll find people living subsistence lifestyles in every environment you've listed. Most likely, their ancestors have been doing it that way for centuries. The keys are that they have prepared and modified their environment. They've capitalized on the features of the local geography, constructed permanent shelters, dug wells and brought in hearty livestock.

There is no need to migrate if you've prepared to "bug in."
 
Interesting discussion Chief! It also highlights long term survival would most likely have to be nomadic outside of tropical or southern forest areas (like our Southeast area). A lot of game migrates seasonally and growing seasons are typically more limiting the further north you go (although the soil is much better than desert/high desert areas). Long term survival on a catastrophic level would be very harsh on animal populations, wood resources for fuel and polluted water sources (think of backed up sewage and failing pumping stations.

Man has thrived in the northern climates…I think now, many of those skills are limited to just a few but there are plenty of resources in most locations. The PNW, where I grew up, is another great location with varied terrain and climates, but most of the required natural resources available. Just thinking of a global crisis, man would turn into a massive, ravenous group of army ants devouring everything in sight…I think the only good news (in a twisted way) would be a an extremely high mortality rate within the first 90 days (lack of water/food, lack of resources, lack of knowledge/skills, poor sanitation, severe medical restrictions, environmental conditions without air conditioners and heating outside of natural resources such as coal and wood). If you can’t hunker down and sustain yourself for at least that long, it will be pretty chaotic regardless of your location.

This is also a good reminder to get very intimate and knowledgeable of your immediate area and what/where the flora and fauna patterns and areas are. Also water will once again be the focal point for survival, life and community establishment.

ROCK6
 
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It is a good topic of discussion. I hope I didn't come off too harsh or dismissive. That wasn't my intent.

But my point is if you really think something of that nature would happen, plan for it. Be at "the good place" before you need to hoof it there and provide for you and yours in the process.

One important aspect, I think is how reliable is the water, flora and fauna anyway these days. How many places exist where you could live off of the land in spite of all of the pollutants that have made there way in to the ecosystem.

Also, if you were headed south and east because its best, wouldn't everyone else be doing the same?
 
I think I'de stay put, unless something drove me away. My family has been has been here(north east) since colonial times. We have(collectively) farm land, hunting grounds and the knowledge to use both efficiently.
Plus, the idea of "moving with the herd" disturbs me. Particularly, having to fight to keep what I've procured for my family.
 
Old CW4 said:
Northern or aboreal forest. Same as high mountains, colder than hell in winter, most meat animals migrated or hibernating, and not much in the way of plant food when it's cold and frozen. Perhaps there would be fish if you can chop through a foot or two of ice so you can fish....?
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Gotta admit man, thats not the case at all. There is lots in the Area if you know what your looking for, just as in the desert, its certainly possible to live in inhospitable areas, just so long as you know the area. Wild game is plentyful, through the summers Fruit can be grown indoors, which would be the main problem, veggies have no problem growing, however in the last few years, its has gotten some what drier up here.

Depending on how far north you go, it just means you need to be more specialized, the North has been inhabited for thousands of years. Food sources are available, its just being able to adapt to them.
 
halo2 said:
Also, if you were headed south and east because its best, wouldn't everyone else be doing the same?
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Precisely, Im taking my know how and a few select friends to the worst environment I can thing of when SHTF, I live in -40 to -60 at times, I don't think I will have to go far to be somewhere where someone wouldn't want to go. :D
 
Old CW4 said:
Comments please.....?
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Hmmm, interesting question! I can foresee many problems, mainly with food. Most places that I would consider heading to would be fine for water and the temperature would make surviving easy enough. But food all year round could be hard, you really want a plentiful supply 365 days a year. We get used to supermarkets open 7 days a week and food that keeps well in their cans & packets as well as frozen foods that are fine for months.

In an EOTWAWKI situation with no power available there won't be freezers to store food so managing to kill a deer wouldn't necessarily mean you are well feed for several weeks. Access to fishing & small game and the occasional deer would be the way to go. I think I should scout out potential places that meet the requirements and spend time camping in those areas, then I'll be familiar with where to go and what to do there.
 
Gadgetaholic said:
In an EOTWAWKI situation with no power available there won't be freezers to store food so managing to kill a deer wouldn't necessarily mean you are well feed for several weeks.
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Sure you can, holes with saw dust and Ice, I did it as a kid.

There are many ways to get around problems, but your right, survival in a scout style is a good way to go. Keep moving, very nomadic, but its works.
 
I believe the reason this is being asked is no one here is an 'aboriginal' to the environment they live in now. If you were, you would already be "home" having a knowledge of the plant life, wildlife, seasonal lifecycles, etc.

Perhaps the question should be which environment would be the easiest for a non-aboriginal to adapt?
 
Fonly said:
Precisely, Im taking my know how and a few select friends to the worst environment I can thing of when SHTF, I live in -40 to -60 at times, I don't think I will have to go far to be somewhere where someone wouldn't want to go. :D
Click to expand...

That's it Brother, same here:thumbup::cool:!!!
 
I like the OP and I think its a good discussion topic. There is clearly a trade off between environmental-optimum, local know-how and also knowledge of local hazard avoidance. Nomadic lifestyle has benefits and risks, the latter being particularly in the potential encounter rates with hostiles or territorial folks.

By 60% of the posts I see here on BF, I wouldn't want to be 100 km from half these guys who claim they'd shoot my testicles off for wondering near their county just for being there. Having local knowledge of what is where and who is where as well as some semblance of trade relationships is important.

Then again, I'm a community person. I don't believe that the long term solution is wondering off in isolation by myself. First, I have a family (both elders and youngers) and I want to keep them protected, I'm not leaving them and by that token I'm rooted by their mobility. Second, I don't want to live alone for 20 years as a bushman. Maybe its just a short term memory thing (I can only keep pornagraphic images in my head for about a day), but I like contributing and being part of society. I believe that this can also be done in SHTF, albeit it will take leaders who formulate and plan as well as sacrifice for the cause. Not lone wolfs who for some reason want to live alone for the next 30 years of lifespan.

But where would a community live and lead? I think sound agricultural practice, good soil, access to water, ability to procure livestock would be in order. I guess, I'm going to follow the primitive ways of 7000 years ago, rather than follows the ways of 50,000 years....Thats just me though. Good thread!
 
Fonly said:
Sure you can, holes with saw dust and Ice, I did it as a kid.
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That's fine for you, but where would I find ice? There is no where nearby where there is any ice or snow at any time of year - a disadvantage for preserving food, but an advantage for shelter.
 
To me, the term "survival" implies a temporary situation that you endure while making progress towards a more permanent, better situation. So, if you're lost in the woods, you employ survival skills & methodologies, while constantly making progress towards the goal of becoming unlost, and returning to your normal way of life.

I don't think picking a location to "survive" in is really a survival situation. As outlined in the OP, I think it's more akin to picking an ideal geographic location to practice sustainable &/or primitive living. However, at that point, it is (IMO) more a decision about your preferred lifestyle than survival.
 
I am hardly a great fisherman, but I'd say Southern rivers and swamps offer the most easily obtained food year round. There used to be folks who lived on the nearby Altamaha River year round. They fished and hunted for a living. The DNR ran them off a few years ago when the rich folks wanted condos on the river and didn't want to see tacky houseboats. But it used to be a fun time. I had a friend who did that, and it was great living out there on the river. Just my thinking on the subject. There are still a few swamp people left who live near the river.
 
If the shit goes down my family and I are heading out into the wilderness, away from everybody else. The thought of what crazed, starving, desperate people would do scares me the most. Especially when they see that I have the necessary tools and supplies to survive. I believe in the overall goodness of humanity. I really do. But when you are going to die, I think that all goes out the window.

Don't get me wrong, I think a small community based on communal living would be ideal. It's those first few months that you should not be around for.


My brothers and I always joked that if the end of the world ever showed up, we were going to hi jac k a gas tanker truck and head north to Canada.
 
I would want to live somewhere which is already low in population. I would want to have land which is open enough for pasturage or tillage, yet has a good amount of tree growth as well.

I would want the ability to draw groundwater without electric power; I would want browsing livestock and chickens.

I would prefer a climate which is temperate. I would not want to live in swampy or marshy areas because of the possibility of flooding or insect born disease.

I don't want to have to move anywhere to get these things. If you aren't already set up, then your chances of survival are already greatly reduced.

Andy
 
Great Post.
To my way of thinking...it would depend largely on which scenario of the EOTW came to fruition.
Nuclear? Asteroid? Biological? Caldera at Yellowstone? Societal collapse by what means? It would dictate the plan of action. The only real way to handle it is to have a vast array of knowledge and a serious will to survive.
My son and I have a couple of stand-by plans. Short term immediate survival and then the long term rebuild the world plan both taken into account.
But...If I had to pick one place only...
I'd have to say southern Appalachian Mountains...Northern Alabama, Northern Georgia, South Eastern Tennessee triangle of the world. It's reasonably warm enough to survive and gets cold enough to kill off most of the germs that plague humans.
There is abundant means of shelter, food, water and natural medicines in those mountains.
My people have lived there since before the trees that built the ship that Columbus sailed with were even sprouted.
No Trail of Tears for us. We said "No" and meant it.
I know one thing...I would very politely break into the local Walgreens and stock up on some meds. I'm pretty sure I would need a xanax, or four, along the way.
It might upset me to have to get all merciless with people.
BTW...Has anyone read the Foxfire Books? Worth a look-see...IMHO.
 
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