Not only How but Where to Survive?

[omniviking]

Well, I am married with 2 girls, 6 and 9. Also between my wife and I we have 3 elderly parents. Would have to figure out a way to hunker down where we are.

If you live in New Mexico and want to head southeast, you are going through alot of other folks. Dall, Fort Worth area, Houston, New Orleans(its a mess). Atlanta. People will be all over the place. Also a lot of other cities to think about.

May be time to go south and find a banana farm on a river.

 

[mtwarden]

my area has a few things going for it- low populations (some of the lowest densities in the nation), good game populations and good fish populations (on the Yellowstone- not so much away from it)

what it has going against it is a very harsh climate- 100 degree temps in the summer and -40 temps in the winter, homesteaders did not fair well in this country; however Northern Cheyenne and Crow folks seemed to fair pretty well- of course they weren't tied to a specific location and moved about at will

 

[Glock26]

I think you got it right on, living by the ocean coastal front will be the most idealist. But the matter of the fact is people don't get to choose when shit happens.

 

[Old CW4]

When I mentioned migrating, I meant I'd do so on foot. I'd have upwards of a thousand miles to hike but I've done that before and can do it again even in my old age. I would totally avoid urban areas and try to avoid other people, plus walk an extra 200 mile circle around a big urban area. I figure it would take me most of a spring and summer to make the trek while living off the land plus anything I could scrounge or even steal.

As others have mentioned, it would all depend on the type, severity, and geo extent of the castrophe. If Yellowstone blows big time or we have a major nuke exchange with the Chinese and/or Russians, there may not be many of us left after a few months. Sort of begs the question, would we really want to survive if either of those events happened? Especially knowing we'd have a 'nuclear winter' and ice age on the way, and probably near impossible survival conditions for years. In that case, other posters are correct, hunker down where you're at and await events before trying to move to a better location.

My main aim in starting this thread was to get folks thinking about and really studying their own and other areas of the country because a lot of us don't live in good areas for long term survival. I had the good fortune, or misfortune depending on your point of view, to be a spec ops type for many years so I got hands on experience in just about every type of environment. I learned to survive eating things that would literally gag a maggot and drinking the unknown 'fluids' from camel and horse tracks. I paid dearly for some of those missions by being sick for weeks or months afterwards and I know first hand what malaria, bhilharzia, dengue, and so on are like. I lay no claims to being a super survival expert, I was just sort of tough and damned lucky. Also, whenver possible, I ate like a pig for days or weeks before going on some of those trips. I wanted to have 20 or 30 lbs of fat to fall back on during a mission and when trying to get back out, one time 900 miles on foot and in the desert. I lost 90 lbs on that trek and wore out a new pair of Corcoran boots, but the extra weight I started with sure paid off. Gaining weight might be something to think about if the news gets dire about things like a Yellowstone caldera about to blow or an impending nuclear war. I know I'll put on some intentional lbs if things start looking really bad. I can always take it back off later if it's not needed.

 

[NothingCoherent]

In the Summer I'd want to stay in the local mountains, just on the tree line where it turns from forest to meadows. I know many good locations to easily survive with just an axe and some fishing line.

I know of one spot in particular that I could very easily live at. It's a massive sub alpine bowl literally COVERED in blueberry. Instead of grass there is blueberry bush for miles and miles, as far as you can see. More than you could ever eat. In addition to this, there's a huge overpopulation of grouse in the area. I've hunted grouse with nothing more than a knife and a rock up there before. Successfully, I might add. Not only that, but if you walk down the mountain for a few hours, you can find a lake that never stops moving - trout. I've fished it before, and pulled a decent size trout out on about every third or fourth cast. It's ridiculous. Nobody hikes up that high, so the land basically untouched and rich in resources. I'm sure there's also rabbit and other wild edibles in the area I could get.

Here's the bowl. All over the ground are small blueberry bushes. They might be short and low to the ground, but they cover the entire area.

The water up here is pristine and endless. You don't need to worry about purifying it or filtering it. The only potential problem in the water is a dead animal or animal shit up stream somewhere. Not a big worry.

And like I mentioned, it's extremely easy to catch Grouse up here. This one was killed with a well placed rock and a quick slice from my Mora. Yum!

I can't think of a better place to live. During the warm season, anyway. Winter time? Forget it. It's a frozen wasteland, just like the rest of Canada! Haha.

 

[Foilist]

I'd be screwed within a couple of weeks if I stayed put.

Although my area is rural, NYC is about a three hour drive in one direction, Boston is about 90 minutes in the other. My idyllic country setting would be overrun by desperate hordes pretty quickly in a truly serious situation.

 

[Loosearrow]

Always a lot of good info in this section about equipment, fire making, shelters, etc., for survival. However, IMO, not enough on WHERE to survive long term.

I've operated and 'lived' in just about every type of terrain around the world, mountains, desert, jungle, forest, swamps, and so on. Seems to me that if your local area is not in a temperate zone conducive to survival, a major part of your planning should be about the process of migrating to an area where you have a better chance.

IMO, the best survival 'world' following a major castrophe would be an area where you're near a seacoast bordered by mountains/hills and forest. You would then have the opportunity of harvesting both zones for the vital necessities---food, shelter, potable water, and fuel.

I've hunted, camped, and been on long term operations in high mountains. They're not good for long term survival unless you get there in warm weather and then spend many weeks (or months) scavenging for and preserving food plus building a shelter for winter when you have to contend with many feet of snow and super cold temps.

Desert country isn't good either. Marginal for food, water can be hard to find and sources undependable. etc.

Northern or aboreal forest. Same as high mountains, colder than hell in winter, most meat animals migrated or hibernating, and not much in the way of plant food when it's cold and frozen. Perhaps there would be fish if you can chop through a foot or two of ice so you can fish....?

Southern forests to include marsh and swamp land. Ah, now we get down to areas where nature's bounty kicks in. Much more termperate in winter and animal, fish, amphibian, and bird life abundant and available year around plus really bountiful in warm weather. Personally, I would gradually migrate south and east. I lived in the forests of the Ozarks as a kid and it doesn't take much woods lore to be able to stay fat year round in that country.

Bottom line. Along with all the knowledge necessary to build fires and shelters, set traps and snares, identity edible plants, etc., I suggest we should also acquire and study books concerning all the varied 'zones' of our big country and the survival potential of each.

I currently live in west central New Mexico a few miles south of Albuquerque. I have desert, forest, and high mountains within hiking distance. I've lived here and studied this area for many years. I conclude that the long term food supply, especially with others competing for it, isn't good. This country where I live may be 'big and wide open' by eastern standards but a hell of a lot of it doesn't produce much in the way of animal or plant food and it can be a long, long trek between sources of water. So, if the SHTF in a big way and I survive, I'm migrating east and south.

Comments please.....?

I grew up in Ocate, New Mexico. We had a well and lived primitive for may years. The adobe house worked great. If I could go back there, I think I would do just fine where I was off the grid. Some of my fondest memories.

 

[Barbarossa]

First of Old CW4 great thread topic! :thumbup:

That's fine for you, but where would I find ice? There is no where nearby where there is any ice or snow at any time of year - a disadvantage for preserving food, but an advantage for shelter.

Sure you can, holes with saw dust and Ice, I did it as a kid.

I grew up in a river town on the Missouri, there is still the "Ice House" next to the river but now it is a biker bar. Anyway in the days before refrigerators, the Ice House was the place to buy ice all year. They cut huge ice blocks out of the river in winter and stored them underground with sawdust. I ordered a book about root cellaring yesterday when I was thinking of this very thing. Old timers did just fine without modern refrigerators, it just took them more work in hauling ice. How about preserving food through smoking, drying, and canning as well to make it last.

You can live/survive in almost any climate and terrain with the proper knowledge and skills but most people do not have them for extreme climates unless they are native to the area. I would stay the hell away from any urban and probably even suburban areas and the sheeple that managed to survive.

Hey NothingCoherent can you send me a map of your area?

I've been buying a lot of books lately on skills geared toward the old ways of doing things for the aftermath and rebuilding phase of society. Canning, butchering, smoking, root cellaring, gardening, growing herbs, etc you get the point.

My ideal place would be in the mountains with a nice lake for fish, water, and ice year round. I'd build a cabin next to the thermal springs that I used as a hot tub year round. I'd also import seven 6' tall blond hair blue eyed Swedish women who like this environment, one for everyday of the week. Hey a guy can dream right?

 

[koyote]

...

IMO, the best survival 'world' following a major castrophe would be an area where you're near a seacoast bordered by mountains/hills and forest. You would then have the opportunity of harvesting both zones for the vital necessities---food, shelter, potable water, and fuel.

I've hunted, camped, and been on long term operations in high mountains. They're not good for long term survival unless you get there in warm weather and then spend many weeks (or months) scavenging for and preserving food plus building a shelter for winter when you have to contend with many feet of snow and super cold temps.

Desert country isn't good either. Marginal for food, water can be hard to find and sources undependable. etc.

Northern or aboreal forest. Same as high mountains, colder than hell in winter, most meat animals migrated or hibernating, and not much in the way of plant food when it's cold and frozen. Perhaps there would be fish if you can chop through a foot or two of ice so you can fish....?
....
Comments please.....?

Well, now we need to look immediately at the type and scope of the disaster. Because that's going to have a huge impact on all this.

If we're looking at small communities, everything is wide open. Large communities, could be more difficult- that gets into very personal issues with families and levels of freedom.

the "me and my family and no one else" thing isn't really sustainable, so I don't know if I'd go there. At the very minimum, we're looking to tribal sorts of associations in terms of numbers.

high mountains are going to be fine if you work with the environment. That means, salting, drying, jerking, foraging, and having your winter camp set up. (I'm looking at the sierra or rockies, here, not permafrost above the treeline). The carrying capacity is a bit lower than some other areas, but there's going to be plenty there if you can work with the seasons. This means homesteading, but I had enough of living out of a pack, I don't want to try and do it permanently.

Deserts, in the main, are not as dry and lifeless as many people think. In the Us, you have 3 main areas where this is a consideration.

The Great Basin, which has enough water to support large scale ranching and crops. Really.

The broader southwestern desert areas in North America (Sonoran and Mojave) have seasonal and year round rivers, basins, ranges, and a real abundance of natural resources. But, due to the management issues necessary for water, you need a community to manage a high level of productivity. Natural game levels are fairly high in many of the areas encompassed by the two deserts, and climate variability within fairly short travelling distances is very high. Much of the Sonoran is known for cattle and sheep country, too.

Speaking specifically of right here east of Fallon Nevada, we have 2 good wells, an adequate amount of rainfall to harvest for drinking if we need to set that up. We are highly dependent on the regions irrigation system, and if that broke down we'd be a good 30 miles from river water. however, this is rancher and veteran country, and unless you have a 95% depopulating event, I can't see a way for this to be permitted to fail. It could be taken through various governmental means (and there'd be a fair amount of violence, you betcha), but that's a different topic.

Northern and arboreal forest rapidly succumbs to the human thing as well. In fact, a lot of the world was conquered by these folks and their descendants. One thing about these areas is that you have a LOT of free time in the winter if you've set yourself up right. It has an effect on what gets produced.

To speak specifically to the seasons, again, you don't want to be hunting in thew winter with no caches or larder, but you've got a huge carrying capacity in small and large game after certain types of catasrophe. And the fruiting seasons won't be as long as tropical do-nothing survival areas (again, look at who gets anywhere in history....) but, you have plenty of the fruit. nuts, berries, and leafy greens are much in prevalence, as well as mushrooms. It becomes, again, a matter of saving your forage or harvest.

None of these are ideal areas for "living on the run", but there's a high degree of life sustenance for.. well, ants. (as in grasshopper and ant). Seasonal nomadery, hunting camps, managed tres and berries, spawning runs.....

 

[22-rimfire]

Unless you are somewhat obsessed with the survival topic, I think survival beyond 60-days is going to have as much to do with luck as a sound foundation in basic skills of food growing, food preservation, fresh water supply, sanitation, fuel, and defensive abilities. Woodcraft knowledge will be important, but just as important is being able to use the resources that are local to you in terms of shelter inter-relating the resource with the environment.

Sounds simple, but it is far from it. You will be competing with other people for the same resources. If you live in an area where coal is available, you should plan on utilizing that resource for heat and food preparation as it is much more efficient than wood. All you really have to do is look at human development and people were much better able to survive in an agrarian economy rather than a hunter-forager.

Being able to produce electricity would be invaluable as you could use much of the current technology. There is a reason why electricity is used today. Best to stick with it if possible.

No one person is going to have all the skills necessary for survival especially in modern times here in the US. You are more apt to survive in a group which has a broad base of skills and strong backs.

 

[koyote]

Sounds simple, but it is far from it. You will be competing with other people for the same resources.

No one person is going to have all the skills necessary for survival especially in modern times here in the US. You are more apt to survive in a group which has a broad base of skills and strong backs.

See, there's a very common and unspoken dichotomy in the survival world expressed here.

I don't plan to be in competition, though my community might, somehow, be.

Again, it comes down to how you define the survival task. For me, the backpack and rifle and trekking 100% of the rest of my life isn't in the cards. Having kids is a big part of that, of course, but I find the whole idea breaks down logistically after some amount of time.

Coal isn't a cure all, nor is electricity, nor even wood. (and I'd far rather use wood than coal for several reasons, but it's a fairly moot point)

The packs and bugout bags and bugout plans are for short term use. Yeah, you may be homesteading or setting up somewhere very far from your home, but stead in you will eventually have to do. We've chosen a place where barring (scary voice) Global Thermonuclear War, we're unlikely to have to bug out. We're out. Not in the middle of the woods all alone, but in the middle of ranchland, with a decent enough city near by to sustain a core of society.


and out bugout plans, since our first child, have included different levels, with the focus beyond the immediate 6 day packs being on building a life.