Not Tough enough

A folder for beating on with a hammer and generally abusing to it's ultimate limit?

Medford Praetorian in D2.

You didn't say it had to be a cheap knife.

best

mqqn
 
midnight flyer said:
And there it is! I bought this to use in my daily construction duties about 9 months ago. It has become my favorite work knife! I posted before that I like it so much I bought a second, "just in case".

I have a stable of work knives, and if I don't feel like sharpening, I just get the next one in line. A RAT1, Cold Steel American Lawman, and old Kershaw Tremor, an Enlan of some model in 440C, and on an on. They go in a box, and when I get a few minutes, I tune them up with some lube and a cleaning, then put an edge on them and they go back to wait their turn. They all have their strong points and a couple have taken quite a beating (no abuse). Note as mentioned before they all have easy to sharpen blades.

But the 0909 is the pocket champ right now, and I will edge that one to put back in my pocket without putting it back in the rotation. I rebeveled the edge, and now it is a breeze to sharpen, although I don't go past 1200gr. Makes the edge too fragile for my use.

Hope you follow up and let us know what you picked and why.

Robert
Click to expand...

I picked up an extra after they discontinued them as well. It's one of two knives I've ever bought doubles of, the other being the Camillus electrician's knife that was my work edc for many, many years. For me, the 0909 seems to strike the perfect balance between stout and slicey.
 
I'll 2nd the Buck/TOPS Csar-T with a 154cm blade if you want a folding knife tough enough that you can hammer on and yet still keep an edge.
 
Miltonhunter77 said:
Folder is easier to keep in car or truck/ legal to carry around everywhere all the time. .
Click to expand...

Wait, huh? in what way is it easier, in any meaningful way, to stash a folder in the car than a fixed blade. I ask that question as a guy who has a 9" bladed FB knife under the passenger seat of my car at the moment....
Your comment makes no sense to me.

Miltonhunter77 said:
I'm not the type of person that's Gona let a weak tool slow me down.
Click to expand...

Nobody here likes weak tools. But we also understand that a tool is meant to be used in a manner consistent with that tools design. Prying, chopping, and hitting a folding knife with a hammer is... well let's face it, in most threads, the guys on here will dogpile on what an idiot the OP is if he does stuff like that...you're getting a pass, and good on ya' for that. I'm glad to see it because you seem like a decent fella.

But really, what you're doing is not knife USE but really more like abuse and if a knife fails under those conditions, it's really not fair to characterize it as a weak tool. That's really an operator error. What you're saying, is akin to calling a Ford F150 weak because it failed on the race track, or that a Ferrari is weak because it didn't slog through mud and rocks well while off-roading.

The fact is, a Spyderco Endura is a pretty tough little SOB of a knife, but treating it like you do, of course it will fail. Just as any folder will. Some will take longer than others, but you aren't going to find a folding knife that can stand up to the abuse and misuse you're describing over the long term.
You even admit this:

Miltonhunter77 said:
I got my wife a griptilan and I have a perdu auto, but they just are not beat with a hammer kinda tough,nor were they meant to be. I guess no knife is ,but that doesn't mean there isn't a few out there that can take it.
Click to expand...

Take your own advice. And maybe there are some knives that can handle it SHORT TERM... but why are you trying to kill your tool by using it improperly?
Use prying tools like a pry bar or the back of a claw hammer for prying things. Use an axe or longer fixed blade to chop things, and use your folder to cut stuff.

My vote (if you really really won't get a fixed blade, which is REALLY my advice) is to get a good tough folder. something like a Spyderco Manix 2 in some tough steel like CTS-HXP, and use it as a knife...
 
It almost seems that the simple "hit it with a hammer" phrase has morphed into "I need a firewood splitting wedge". I would think that personally, if that nice but unexceptional knife he has been using has stood the daily rigors of work as he uses it, then he isn't hammering on it constantly or vigorously. Although heartbreaking to do it, I have hammered (lightly) on my knives when I needed to when in a pinch. That's why as mentioned above that on site, I don't carry my expensive knives. When I lightly tapped my RAT 1 through a 16 inch cedar shingle to split it, it did no damage. When i used the same knife to cut through 12TW 110v wiring, it rolled the edge a bit, but rounded the spine. Both issues fixed in 15 minutes, but more importantly my crew could continue to work.

So for those of use that use our knives out of this group's accepted norm, what can we do? Are there no knives for us but fixed in order to be accepted? How about:

Batoning/chopping with a $4 knife at 11 minutes
More batoning with a RAT at 2:30
Hammering the spine of a crappy S&W
A nod to CRKT
Cold Steel weighs in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hl4F3KztzE
SAK is tested here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUhXpGZNsHg

Chopping wood by hammering on a blade https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UySGAGd1Zhs
Not sure why, but cutting down a tree with a folder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm2uzP3FM0Y

Seems even lower priced knives have the ability to take some punishment if needed.

There are a million other videos out there that really put folders through some awful tests, tests that don't replicate anything you would use it for in the real world (like the guy that tests folders by hammering the blade through cable TV cord dozens of time) and even people that cut wire (remember that russian guy that included wire cutting by bashing the blade of a folder through thick wire?) and all manner of other baloney.

I have had to hammer on my knives, but didn't like it one bit, was glad when it was over and don't recommend it to anyone. BTW, he never described what he used to hammer it with or how often he did it.

So my point is back to this: since he knows what he wants, had a working example of a knife that will take the punishment/use he puts it through, why can't he have once again what he wants in peace? He just asked a simple question. Obviously he isn't "abusing" is knife if he uses it carefully (remember: a gift from the wife he doesn't want to damage... hint... hint... to those who can't figure out some amount of care and concern) when doing the prescribed tasks at hand, so why are so many hard set on him changing the kind of knife he likes using? I know most people don't read anything more than the first post of a thread before replying, but later in this thread he posts about why he uses a folder, then explains with an LOL that he doesn't hammer on his knives every day.

There are egos, and then there are EGOS. He specifically asked for a folder. Given the fact he is a full grown man, a man that uses his knife daily in his chosen work, and a man that has found satisfaction with folders, maybe... just maybe he knows what he wants but just can't find a brand to settle in on. MAYBE if he had wanted a fixed he would have asked for a fixed.

Robert
 
Last edited:
Shotgun said:
I second this only if I’m not mistaken they’re using 15n20 now. Still a really good non-stainless steel for rough use. The peasant is one of my all time favorites only it can be a bit hard to pocket carry depending on the pocket. They have a mini version which is okay but the full size is where it’s at for a working knife. I’ve heard that the mini maglite sheath fits it so there’s a cheap belt carry option though you can get custom work done.
Click to expand...

I think you are correct, I've always heard it's BU's 15N20. Similar to L6 in that they're noth bandsaw steels, have the same Carbon content, and a lot of nickel. My Peasant knives are the only folders I own that I would literally "hammer on" without worry.
 
Wow, I get it. I figured I would get roughed up a bit,lol. I'm not asking what you think about my being hard on a knife, I'm asking what's a tough knife? I can't carry a fixed blade in my car at my job at a prison because it's considered a weapon. Were as a folder is not. Hope that answers that part.
I'll be the first to admit my collection of knives is different from a glass case with nice knives in it. My collection is a bunch of broken and worn out blades. I use my my knives as a tool. I do have a few knives that mean something to me because of who gave them to me,not the brand name or dream metal they might be made of.
 
I have a d2 fixed blade on way to carry on weekends, as far as my s30v spyderco. I can see the merits it would have. I sharpened down past the chips and so far so good. And by all the video I've seen ,If I ever need to cut a rope into a thousand pieces or cut a paper into shreds I'm good to go. I would love to have kitchen knife made out of it. As for my folder. I managed to find new old stock lone wolf swale just like the one my wife got me. So i can go back to being the devil on here,beating up my poor knives.
 
+1 on skyhorse's buck 110 recommendation.
Its a super tough folder that's easy to maintain and a rediculous bang for your buck (sorry, couldn't resist) .
 
I second this from hexenjager hexenjager
Blade steel is S35VN. I haven't tested it in hammering or prying, but it's a pretty darned robust knife, so who knows? I should also note that on the bale twine thing, I got some very small chipping at first, like you did with S30V, but I stopped getting chipping after hand sharpening a couple times. I almost always get chipping at first on bales with the machine sharpened factory edges, though. Your Spyderco might improve in that regard after a few trips to the stone as well. Might be worth giving it another chance if you like the knife.
Click to expand...

The factory edge of my sage was about as fragile as a I've ever seen on a knife blade. It showed a noticable improvement after a few full sharpenings, and after about 10-15, has settled into a fairly durable edge.

I say keep sharpening and using it, maybe it'll improve like ours did.

If it turns out s30v doesn't hold up, forget factory stainless blades, go with something like 1095. Harder to find steels like 52100, cpm-m4, and hap40 should also satisfy your toughness needs.
 
Spyderco manix... Its s30v but I have never had problems with chipping. Its a much thicker knife than the sage so it should have a stronger edge. I have slipped an banged mine against steel pin stock without ant chipping.
Also the ontario rat 1. Amazing ergos and stupid tough. Aus 8 roles way before it chips too. Its also a very cheap knife so if you do break it you wont miss much. They also just switched to d2 for some knives and that is also a pretty tough steel.
 
It sounds like the sage design just isn’t for your need S30V isn’t really the issue. I would second a ZT 0909 if you can find one, the Spyderco Techno is also great. A Cold Steel Recon 1(Pick a blade style you like, I prefer spear) in XHP is a great budget option. If you don’t care so much about the cost, then I recommend a Hinderer Half Track ( @whitty can atest to how tough they are) or a Spartan Harsey Folder. Hope this helps!
 
Finally decided to sell the spyderco. I do love the feel of it and the lock up and frame are great. I hate to ruin an expensive knife.
Just can take the chipping. I sharpen my knives on the regular, keen is the word. So edge retention is not an issue.
I'm am picky I suppose. If I can see the nicks in the blade it is failing. I just don't don't know why people think this stuff is tough. I'm guessing it's wonderful as a sharp tool,just like a chisel. Just not as what I consider everyday carry.
 
Great, that your knives are actually used.

Most here no doubt cringe at the hammering description though and I dont hammer my folders either but its your knives:D

I get, that you were focussed on a folder and I get the legal aspect with regards to your other job and leaving a knife in your vehicle.

Also some 'folder carrying folk' rarely contemplate carrying a fixed blade but with the workout, you put your knives through, you should look at a fixed blade.

The Carothers EDC knife can be had in 3V and Delta 3V and is small enough to be accepted in many/most jurisdictions.

It's tough as nails - literally.

 
For a tough folder for outdoor work, get the Cold Steel Recon1 .
For a slightly smaller option, get the CS Ultimate Hunter.
Both are strong knives that feel good in hand. Great for outdoor work and pocket carry.
 
My suggestion.

Ontario Rat for $40. D2 steel. Liner lock. Beat on it, break it, buy another, repeat.


If you wanted to spend more money, I’d go with something proven from a military standpoint.

Cold steel recon 1
Emerson
Heck, even the military issued Gerber 06 series.
ZT has a few I’d look at too.
 
I have two Recon 1’s. They are absolute beasts. Toughest folders out of the 60 or so I own.

The ZT0620 can be found in the $150 range new and it is another crazy overbuilt knife that will take tons of abuse.
 
Fixed blade is obviously tougher.

In the spyderco lineup you should look at the gayle Bradley 1 or 2. The M4 is tough and holds a good edge. Thin enough to slice well but still pretty tough.

If I was in your shoes I'd probably use a Rat 1 because it's cheaper and I wouldn't feel so bad about beating on it. Cold Steel has a reputation for being tough but I've never used one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top