Now I know I have O1 steel- Problem?

OK...again sorry for my ignorance (total newb).

1 "You will not like O-1 until you learn how to normalize"
Does that mean let it cool slower when finished?
2 In Idaho stuff doesn't rust fast. This block is 17 years old and has no rust :)
3 It sounds like the 1" thickness is a problem? Can a metal bandsaw resaw as we do with wood?
4 O1 and L6 weld together well for damascus...good to know. I thought O1 was not used for damascus blades (read it somewhere...alloys did unspeakable things) :)
5 Kevin Cashen's name is revered here...good thing to know since you all sound brilliant to me.
6 It was mentioned that this bar stock was too thick and I should save it for something else. Like what?
 
Ahh Delbert...I see now on your web page that it's O1-L6 AND Nickle. Now I get it. Beautiful work !!!!!!
 
Ray, might want to give the rust a whiff, it could tell you what caused the problem. My guess is one of those 24 hours "carne asada" shacks out there in the NW ;)
 
Do all you guys forge mild steel?
I know that O-1 is a BIT tougher under the hammer than 1084, but Jeeze its not that bad. You guys should try forging A-2 or S-7. You want tough to forge go for one of those. L-6 is a little tougher than O-1, but not nearly as bad as the other 2. Don't scare this guy off, before he even starts.

Deloid, thanks for the compliment.
As to your question about sawing; you can saw it up just fine. If you like saw it lengthwise, then you will have 1/2" stock to forge down, and since you sound to be just starting out with it, it will be a bit easier for you.
I routinely forge O-1 down in thicknesses up to 3", with the aid of a hydraulic press. Although I have done billets by hand that size too.
O-1 has a tendancy to be a bit tough unless spheriodized annealed, thus the comments about drilling.
Hope this helps,
Thanks,
Del
 
deloid said:
OK...again sorry for my ignorance (total newb).
Click to expand...
No reason to be sorry ignorance is fine, it is a natural part of the learning process, the starting point from which to progress. You are a blank paper waiting for a profound verse, an empty vessel ready to be filled, you just need to be selective as to what goes in so folks don’t fill you full of ####.;) Ignorance is simply the pre-educated state, STUPIDITY on the other hand is the intentional desire to remain ignorant, and I find it much harder to forgive since there are far too many people in this world suffering with that affliction. Fortunately your questions reveal that you are not one of the latter… so don’t sweat it ;)

deloid said:
1 "You will not like O-1 until you learn how to normalize"
Does that mean let it cool slower when finished?
Click to expand...

It means it is very important to not let your last forging heat be your last heat. Carefully reheat the work as evenly as possible until it no longer attracts a magnet -even heating is critical. Then allow it to air cool without a hammer being within 5 feet of it. This should be repeated a couple of times at lower temperatures so that the steel is stepped down from the forging and higher heats. This will bring grain size in line and distribute the carbon evenly throughout. I have seen a good share of O-1 pull itself apart by cooling straight to room temperature from a higher heat.

deloid said:
4 O1 and L6 weld together well for damascus...good to know. I thought O1 was not used for damascus blades (read it somewhere...alloys did unspeakable things) :)
Click to expand...

O-1 and L6 can be welded together to make a very high performance damascus but they are not the easiest mix to work with and I would not recommend them for beginners. In a 1-10 scale of difficulty I would put that mix at around an 8. 1084 and 15n20 would be around 3 in difficulty. O-1 works very well in damascus one just has to be careful what to partner it with and be aware that its deep hardening characteristics are going to be an issue. One of the oldest mixes in the business is 0-1 and 1018 which is actually an abysmal choice that will only make it a little easier for the maker but much worse for the finished product. Dumping all that mild steel in there will counteract the hardenability of the 0-1, fine for forging, bad for final hardness of the blade. L6 is a good match for O-1 because it will not require compromises in either steel, but it is not the easiest to work with.

deloid said:
5 Kevin Cashen's name is revered here...good thing to know since you all sound brilliant to me.
Click to expand...

I don't really get this one myself since closer to home I am used to my name being reviled;). However I would prefer respect over reverence.:)
 
I love O-1, when I did stock removal it was all I used once I became smart enough to stop using mystery metal. I now do most of my short blades in 1084 because the stuff forges like play-dough, if I need thicker wider starting stock I use 1095 (until Aldo gets the wider 1084 in then I'll go back to 1084 for that too) I will still buy O-1 if I have a custom order that HAS to be perfect because I have 20 years of experience with O-1, although once I have another year or two under my belt with the 1084 that may change. O-1 is great stuff, with the info I have learned about using it's finer characteristics I can make blades that will cut like a demon! As for rusting, yes, maybe if you leave fine scratches in your finish that hold dust, retain finger oils/salts etc you'll get rust. I polish my blades, and I haven't had rust problems, your mileage may vary. If you are going o use a polisher make sure you know how to do it safely. A spinning polisher can grab a blade out of your hand (or through your fingers) and throw it through you.

-Page
 
The only comparison I have done with forging round bar is between 1" O1 on one side and 3/4" and 7/8" W2 and 3/4" 5160 on the other. I gave up on trying to flatten out 1 inch O1 drill rod by hand....lol. The W2 seems to move the easiest of the 3, but it is still a little bit of a chore to "break the shape" of the round bar.
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
No reason to be sorry ignorance is fine, it is a natural part of the learning process, the starting point from which to progress. You are a blank paper waiting for a profound verse, an empty vessel ready to be filled, you just need to be selective as to what goes in so folks don’t fill you full of ####.;) Ignorance is simply the pre-educated state, STUPIDITY on the other hand is the intentional desire to remain ignorant, and I find it much harder to forgive since there are far too many people in this world suffering with that affliction. Fortunately your questions reveal that you are not one of the latter… so don’t sweat it ;)



It means it is very important to not let your last forging heat be your last heat. Carefully reheat the work as evenly as possible until it no longer attracts a magnet -even heating is critical. Then allow it to air cool without a hammer being within 5 feet of it. This should be repeated a couple of times at lower temperatures so that the steel is stepped down from the forging and higher heats. This will bring grain size in line and distribute the carbon evenly throughout. I have seen a good share of O-1 pull itself apart by cooling straight to room temperature from a higher heat.



O-1 and L6 can be welded together to make a very high performance damascus but they are not the easiest mix to work with and I would not recommend them for beginners. In a 1-10 scale of difficulty I would put that mix at around an 8. 1084 and 15n20 would be around 3 in difficulty. O-1 works very well in damascus one just has to be careful what to partner it with and be aware that its deep hardening characteristics are going to be an issue. One of the oldest mixes in the business is 0-1 and 1018 which is actually an abysmal choice that will only make it a little easier for the maker but much worse for the finished product. Dumping all that mild steel in there will counteract the hardenability of the 0-1, fine for forging, bad for final hardness of the blade. L6 is a good match for O-1 because it will not require compromises in either steel, but it is not the easiest to work with.



I don't really get this one myself since closer to home I am used to my name being reviled;). However I would prefer respect over reverence.:)
Click to expand...

Dude.......we still admit to speaking to you, even if it is only to make sure that you haven't shut off your electricity after some fight with the power company and become a hermit:D How often does one get to make a Scagel joke and actually have it fit....kinda.....lol:p By the way, Kevin.....don;t worry about what some may say. It's perfectly ok to be a "mad scientist" if you science is good:thumbup::D
 
deloid, I have used O-1 both in forging and stock removal. It makes a nice blade and there is nothing wrong with it. Good luck!
 
With the excellent advice I've gotten here I'm going to have loads of fun with it.

Thanks!
 
If nothing else when forging it you'll get one nice big bicep and one large forearm.... unless you have a power hammer :)
 
Bud Nealy used a lot of O-1 in the beginning of his carrer in the early 80s,he liked to give his a nice blued finish, I have one of his early O-1 Aikuchis and I've edc'd it since I bought it at the first ECCK'S Show, even though the bluing shows signs of wear the finish has still held up.

Look him up I'm sure he has an opinion on O-1 too.
 
Nothing at all wrong with O-1, though it would not be my first choice to learn how to forge on. But it's not that much harder to move than 1084 and it's about the same or easier than a lot of other steels.

I don't use much O-1 because I tend to get slightly better performance from other steels, but when I'm in a hurry and want to try a new blade shape or need a shop or field knife in a hurry I've got several pieces of precision ground that I use along with making damascus out of it. A guy I used to work with lost nearly everything due to a house fire after katrina and a bunch of us got together to re-outfit him for hunting season and my contribution was a simple hunter ground out of O-1 and he couldn't believe how well it performed.

If your just starting pick a steel, wether O-1 or what ever and learn everything you can about it. Just about any high carbon steel will make a good knife, from 1045 to the newest supper steel, if you get the heat treat rite. Every steel has plusses and minuses and there are always trade-offs, but in the end use most people won't notice a lot of differance unless doing some pretty serious testing and comparison, provided the heat treat is good.
 
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