now is ATS34 tough or brittle?

Seb

Joined
Oct 1, 2000
Messages
188
I just read the steel FAQ which states that ATS 34 is quite tough. In some threads, however, I read it is rather brittle and will chip easily on staples or things like that. What is true?

Seb
 
I think its all in the heat treat. I have had some production knives in ats34 that seemed to chip if ya looked at them wrong. On the other hand, I have had customs in ats34 that were very durable. I even had one custom in ats34 in which I asked for a very thin edge (not even a secondary edge bevel). The heat treat was good, and even with the super thin edge I had no problems with chipping or poor edge holding.



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The heat treat is the key.
The guys at Strider use ATS-34 & what they wind up with is incredibly tough. There are also others who use it & get great results.

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[This message has been edited by Rugger (edited 02-14-2001).]
 
Hello and greetings!
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I only know enough about this subject to make a fool out of myself!
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I would guess that the toughness of ATS-34 is very dependent on heat treatment, blade shape, and grind. I like ATS-34 quite a bit myself, and I like the edge retention. But , I go with a slightly softer steel in a knife that I think is going to be abused(fixed blade/work knife). ATS-34's higher rockwell hardness works against it in applications where it may chip. Be careful out there!
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Depends on the heat treatement
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I've chipped ATS-34 and 154 CM blades frmo several manufacturers, matter of fact I'm trying to avoid those blades, if I have an option, which would be M2, BG-42, CPM440, etc...
However I've got Strider MH last week &I love it already
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, made of ATS-34 treated by P. Boss.
For testing MH I've started with cutting the same wire that chipped 154CM last time, then went to thicker cables and MH did just terrific.

To be fair MH had 25 degree angle vs. 21-23 degree angles on other ATS-34/154 CM knives, on the other hand, the cables I've used to test MH, except the first one that was identical to the one that damaged 154CM blade, were thicker ones with shielding.


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Any views on the treats of

Gerber
MT
and BM?

I was told by Fred Whitlock that 154CM is Way to brittle for him, any views?

W.A.

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Benchmade blades are a good 2 points harder on the rockwell scale than what most ATS34 blades are made at. And theres been cases of them being to brittle. On the other hand, my pinnacle (750S) has taken everything I could throw at it with no damage and holds its edge really well to boot.And I've cut some tough stuff with it.

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I have found ATS-34 to be quite tough.Most of the knives I make are of O-1.The one I am currently using at work is ATS-34,and I have had no problems at all with it.It is a chisel grind and was heat treated at TKS.I even dropped it the other day from about four feet up ,point first into the concrete,no damage to the point but took a 1/2" chunk of floor up.Dave
 
Toughtness, like most things is relative. What one person regards as performance that indicates a very tough blade, another might not regard as such at all. A lot of it depends on your experience. You tend to rank things in a scale based on what you have seen.

ATS-34 is a high carbon, high alloy stainless steel, and is basically one of the most brittle cutlery steels. Compared to the lower carbon, lower alloy stainless steels (440A), is quite brittle. Compared to the tool steels like O1 even more so, and compared to the high toughness steels like 5160 even more so still. And at the extreme end of the scale are the plain carbon steels.

I have used ATS-34 in production knives (Benchmade) and the performance was very poor. The knives would chip out easily and the points would snap without any significant flex. However others have commented on better performance which doesn't surprise me given the QC issues at Benchmade.

I have also used custom ATS-34 blades (Lynn Griffith) and had better results with chipping, but it was a small blade and used for light work. But even it lost the point without significant flex and a brittle break.

I have also used ATS-34 from Paul Bos, it holds up well on wood chopping, but harder contacts will cause it to fracture whereas much tougher steels like 5160 will only indent if anything.

-Cliff
 
In regards to ATS34's toughness, the real question is, "compared to what?" At a relatively high hardness, it is still tough enough to be a reasonable choice for many uses. On the other hand, it's not the best choice for a host of other uses.

ATS-34 is used and heat treated by so many people, the performance range seems to vary widely. Even within a single maker, heat treat recipes seem to change. For example, Benchmade for years had the rap of putting out very hard -- and thus brittle -- ATS-34. And sure enough, I've seen my older Benchmade's chip when I didn't expect chipping. On the other hand, my Axis is sharpened to 15-degrees per side, and takes everything I can throw at it. I've heard other people get similarly good results with newer Benchmades, so maybe they've backed off on the hardness or improved the heat treat process.

I definitely need to update the Steel FAQ. A few years ago, ATS-34 was the best (or rather, the only well-known) choice when you wanted to go stainless, and leave the steel really hard. These days, there are other choices, staom;ess steels that can get just as hard and hold an edge as long or longer, but are as tough or tougher.

Joe
 
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