Numbering knives?????? Who does it? Why?

Kevin Jones said:
I agree Bob, as most anything we do can have both positive and negative ramifications.

My point is that if a knife is going to be marked with a # then I suggest making it look good and have a substantial purpose or reason for marking it.

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Kevin, are you saying that the Loveless numbering system is unattractive in appearance? Not quite sure what you mean by "look good".

I personally think the Loveless' numbering system doesn't add or detract from the appearance of the knife. The last thing a maker would want would be a number system, showing on a knife, that was unattractive. Just wondering if that's what you meant by subtle. I think it probably is, just wondering.

Bob
 
The late Bob Ogg kept fastidious handwritten records, and numbered his knives successively. The family can still locate a date and an original buyer of thousands of his works.

When I was into making Kit Knives (who remembers that?), I had a date/numeral system for them. I got up to about 25.... :)

When I was porting heads at the Ducati dealership I also had a date/number order. I got up to about 12 900ss's alone.

Like Bruce said: Some people have an obsessive organization gene. I don't, but I'm trying to make do.... ;)

Coop
 
bigal2me said:
You have to think about it like this though?? Trent

My first folder was a piece of junk. :rolleyes:
And my first fix blade was no show winner. :rolleyes:

And I don't think any makers first are their best pieces?:confused::D

So you would have to get pretty famous for a collector to get much out of your first? right? ;)

Todd


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I'm not sure if any makers ever numbered thier first few knives or even put thier names on them, I didn't, not till I started getting really comfortable with my abilities and got into more sole authorship. Even today I don't number and mark every knife I make, if I am unhappy with it or if it's a concept I am working on. I don't sell them either, I give them as gifts.
 
I used to number every knife but haven't for several years now. The reason being that some people had the impression that the aftermarket value of a lower number knife would automatically be higher than one with a higher number not taking into consideration the original value. Just to keep it simple, I no longer number any of them.
 
betzner said:
Kevin, are you saying that the Loveless numbering system is unattractive in appearance? Not quite sure what you mean by "look good". I personally think the Loveless' numbering system doesn't add or detract from the appearance of the knife. The last thing a maker would want would be a number system, showing on a knife, that was unattractive. Just wondering if that's what you meant by subtle. I think it probably is, just wondering.
Bob
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Yes Bob, I'm saying (to me) the chicken scratch doesn't look good on a $12,000 knife, especially when beside a neatly etched and cool maker's mark.
By subtle, I mean a number neatly marked (etched similar to the makers mark) or stamped that blends in with a beautiful knife rather than stick out like a sore thumb. Personally, I won't buy a Loveless with the number scratched on.
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Win Heger said:
I've always loved the mystique of the Loveless numbering system. Jim recently told me the main purpose of the number was to keep it with the correct sheath.Makes sense since the sheaths do have a matching number. The actual number means nothing and could have just been a license plate Bob saw.

Win
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Win, isn't the Loveless Shop now (in the last year or so) marking the knives with numbers on sticky labels rather than scratching them? That's what I've been told and one I saw out of the Shop right before Bob's death was marked that way. Just peel the number off.
 
bigal2me said:
Sad thing is - I may have lost my book with my first 180 knives in it? :(
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That's why I no longer number mine.
There's enough "stuff" to do the way it is.
I numbered the first 300.
To then number the knife and record that number and describe the knife it went with, etc. just overloads my circuits anymore.
And I ain't got too many circuits left.
 
Kevin, I'm not sure when they started but the last knife I received did have the label instead of an engraved number.;)

Win
 
Charlie and I have only numbered a few of our knives. Usually the first of a particular model. We have had only a couple of customers ask about serial numbers and they didn't really seem to care one way or the other.

The way we mark our knives adding a serial number would be one of the last steps in making the knife. It would be just one more thing that can go wrong and we don't see it as worth the trouble.
 
Mark Knapp said:
I do it so that the owner and I have a permanent record of the knife. The number on the knife is also on the Certificate of authenticity, the certificate gives all the pertinent data of the knife; who it was made for, when it was completed, who made it, and the materials used in the blade and the handle. The number itself has some significance, a knife with the number 51106 was made in May of 2011 and it was the 6th knife I made that month. I started doing it so that I would not have to write "The custom drop point hunter with blue mammoth ivory grips was made for..." on the certificate. Instead I write “The custom drop point hunter with serial number...". It positively identifies which knife we are talking about.
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Good thoughts and good system. :thumbup:

Taylor
 
Per "the chicken scratch doesn't look good on a $12,000 knife", isn't that kind of why Loveless put it on? I never met the man, but from what I've read, he had a kind of sly sense of humor. If so, then the "chicken scratch" may desirable to some.
 
brownshoe said:
Per "the chicken scratch doesn't look good on a $12,000 knife", isn't that kind of why Loveless put it on? I never met the man, but from what I've read, he had a kind of sly sense of humor. If so, then the "chicken scratch" may desirable to some.
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I expect you are right.
Knives scratched "RWL" demand a premium.

By the way, I wouldn't like numbers scratched (for no significant purpose) on a $120 knife either. ;)
 
Putting a serial number on a knife is time consuming if it is going to be done with the same quality as the makers mark. It is also a great place to make a mistake that can be costly to fix or even cause the knife to be trashed. If it is being etched it requires a separate stencil for every number that will only be used once. If it is stamped using individual numbers, it will look like individual numbers were used. If it is scratched on with a vibro tool no matter where it is done it will look like it was done with a vibro tool. Time is involved in any method of marking the number that adds to the cost of the knife. There is no easy or cheep way around this.

The makers that number their knives have either accepted that the benefits of having a number are worth the cost and risk of doing it right or accepted that the appearance of a number that is easy to do and doesn't look good is worth the detraction to the appearance of the knife. As a collector, it has never been a consideration to me at all and a Loveless with a hand scratched number for $125.00, $1250.00 or $2500.00 would get my attention even though I have never wanted a Loveless knife...


We put the date the knife was made on some of our knives at one time. We stopped when a guy at a knife show picked up one that had the date from the previous year on it, (less than 6 months old) said it was old and bought a similar knife that was laying next to it that didn't have a date. Dang, you have to make them at some time and not sell them if you are going to carry them to a show. You can't make them the day before the show. We only put our logo and the type of steel on them now.
 
I undertand all the reasons not to. Good ones, too.

Still, others have a different set of reasons to include it. Here's the classiest numbering system I've ever seen. Rob Brown from S.Africa.

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BTW, Bob Loveless legitimized green canvas micarta, chicken scratch numbers, and pen signatures on sheaths. Inch per inch no one's knives are worth more. Go figure. ;)

Coop

Coop
 
I like the idea of getting a maker to sign his sheath. I took a Ted Dowell knife That I have enjoyed for years to the last Knifemakers Guild show to get him to sign it. I knew that he had been sick and didn't know if he would be there or not. Turns out it was the first show he has ever missed. I don't know if a makers signature on the sheath would ruin it or not. In that case I didn't care since I don't plan on getting rid of the knife and think a lot of Mr. Dowell.
 
Kevin Jones said:
Yes Bob, I'm saying (to me) the chicken scratch doesn't look good on a $12,000 knife, especially when beside a neatly etched and cool maker's mark.
By subtle, I mean a number neatly marked (etched similar to the makers mark) or stamped that blends in with a beautiful knife rather than stick out like a sore thumb. Personally, I won't buy a Loveless with the number scratched on.
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Are you really saying $ 12 thousand? Yikes! Is the knife in the photo such an example? What would make this knife worth $ 1,200.00 let alone $ 12,000.00. Not trying to be sarcastic – I am truly just wondering. Is there such a market out there for something other than an Civil War era custom knife in perfect condition?

Still learnin' Ray
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If I remember correctly from the Loveless knife making video, while building a knife Bob numbered the knife and guard with corresponding numbers. I guess this way he would know which guard went with which blade after heat treat. I don't know why he just didn't put the numbers on the tang.
 
RayseM said:
Kevin Jones said:
Yes Bob, I'm saying (to me) the chicken scratch doesn't look good on a $12,000 knife, especially when beside a neatly etched and cool maker's mark.
By subtle, I mean a number neatly marked (etched similar to the makers mark) or stamped that blends in with a beautiful knife rather than stick out like a sore thumb. Personally, I won't buy a Loveless with the number scratched on.
DSC_0019-2.jpg




Are you really saying $ 12 thousand? Yikes! Is the knife in the photo such an example? What would make this knife worth $ 1,200.00 let alone $ 12,000.00. Not trying to be sarcastic – I am truly just wondering. Is there such a market out there for something other than an Civil War era custom knife in perfect condition?

Still learnin' Ray
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Hi Ray-

I don't think you will find that many people quote such dollar values online. This kind of puts a different "slant" to this thread on "numbering" knives, doesn't it?

Such a practice can backfire, when the value of the knife shown suddenly becomes subject to discussion, value disagreement, etc.

I personally prefer any discussion on knife values to be on a relative rather than an actual basis. Otherwise, it's a bit presumptive.

It's a beautiful Loveless, but $12K? The value is way up there (relatively), but definitely subject to interpretation by many.

Best,

Bob
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