NYC knife laws: unconstitutional

The police have arrested all the drug dealers, thieves, rapists, carjackers, child molesters, and have eliminated all the unlicensed and uninsured motorists from the road, so they have nothing else to do except harrass everyone. That way they can look busy and pretend like they're doing their job.
 
Bloomberg's leaving office is unlikely to change anything. As mentioned previously, he is not the main force behind NY's non-sensical knife/gun laws. Bloomberg's successor is most likely going to be a bigger libby statist then Mr. Bloomberg is. You don't have to go far to see why the NYPD is the way it is. We had a chief of police who's now a federal felon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Kerik). Unfortunately, fighting these acts thru legal means is nearly impossible as NYC (for all its deficits) has a very well funded legal team.

Unfortunately, this is a direct result of liberal policies, indoctrination, a real lack of property ownership, and political will centered around those that otherwise don't belong.

That said, there is absolutely no legal means by which a cop can search a person or their mail without the appropriate search warrants. Obviously, arrest is not a pleasant thing but long term its not a concern. Simply don't carry your knife in the open and you'll be fine.

The real travesty is that I can buy a gun at any time I want. I mean that in the literal sense; I can buy effectively any gun I please (including a full auto) at any time I want. The said firearm would be highly illegal and I would risk arrest for it but its available to me. Now if I decided to apply for a firearms license (something I actually plan to do) then that would be a 6 month process with little to no guarantee of success.

All of this (and quite a few other things) sometimes make me consider leaving the city in utter disgust. Practical considerations make me stay but long term I don't see myself sticking around long after marriage/kids.
 
Unfortunately, fighting these acts thru legal means is nearly impossible as NYC (for all its deficits) has a very well funded legal team.

I guess we will see how "nearly impossible" it is... ;) If you aren't willing to fight, if you simply assume that it is impossible, then for sure it is impossible. We are willing to fight. Help us fight this insanity. Join or make a donation and become part of the solution.
 
ooitzoo, while I agree with alot of what you have to say, I disagree with the fact that a search is illegal without a warrant. The discovery of any weapon is the one item that courts allow a simple articulation by the officer that he believed a crime was about to occur, or did. This can be almost anything you do or say that an officer can state caused him to believe this condition existed. This is how over 600,000 stop and frisk stops are justified each year in NYC. Discovery of a weapon is almost always allowed to stick as a charge during this type of stop, where discovery of other ilegal items ( drugs, stolen peoperty, etc) are often not allowed to proceed to trial without the additional reasons for the search....
 
I guess we will see how "nearly impossible" it is... ;) If you aren't willing to fight, if you simply assume that it is impossible, then for sure it is impossible. We are willing to fight. Help us fight this insanity. Join or make a donation and become part of the solution.

Totally agreed. I intend to stop by your booth at NYCKS next weekend. I've been meaning to join earlier.

Can you also outline for me exactly what you are doing to combat the DA/police in NYC? I'm just curious as to the efforts you guys are undertaking.

ooitzoo, while I agree with alot of what you have to say, I disagree with the fact that a search is illegal without a warrant. The discovery of any weapon is the one item that courts allow a simple articulation by the officer that he believed a crime was about to occur, or did. This can be almost anything you do or say that an officer can state caused him to believe this condition existed. This is how over 600,000 stop and frisk stops are justified each year in NYC. Discovery of a weapon is almost always allowed to stick as a charge during this type of stop, where discovery of other ilegal items ( drugs, stolen peoperty, etc) are often not allowed to proceed to trial without the additional reasons for the search....


The standard of reasonable articulate suspicion still stands. Basically, walking down the street does not meet this standard. Neither does refusing to be searched. What an officer says he believes is a legally baseless standard. Worst case, you will spend a day in lock up and then be released. Luckily, NY courts are quite willing to allow citizens to then sue for large dollar amounts for unlawful imprisonment.

Overall, I agree that the NYPD is out of control with regard to protecting citizen rights.
 
Well I wish what you think the court will do was true, but sadly it is not. You are speaking from an idealistic undersatnding of the law ( which I wish is how it played out), and I am speaking from years of NYC law enforcement and time spent in court. Weapon charges brought as the result of searches tend to stick ( Brooklyn is your best bet for them not too, and Manhattan is your worst). You would be amazed as to what is allowed as reasonable for the right to search for a weapon. A bulge that an officer states looked like a weapon; the out line of a knife, handing something to some one ( possible hand to hand drug transaction): the courts have routinely upheld all of these as PC for a stop, and therefore allowable for a weapons charge .....sad but true my friend.
 
Totally agreed. I intend to stop by your booth at NYCKS next weekend. I've been meaning to join earlier.

Can you also outline for me exactly what you are doing to combat the DA/police in NYC? I'm just curious as to the efforts you guys are undertaking.


See our lawsuit against the DA and NYC: http://bit.ly/nS7PMc

Latest update: http://bit.ly/seFCFx

Look for a new update Monday or Tuesday...

Overall, I agree that the NYPD is out of control with regard to protecting citizen rights.

I certainly wouldn't argue with that.
 
Well I wish what you think the court will do was true, but sadly it is not. You are speaking from an idealistic undersatnding of the law ( which I wish is how it played out), and I am speaking from years of NYC law enforcement and time spent in court. Weapon charges brought as the result of searches tend to stick ( Brooklyn is your best bet for them not too, and Manhattan is your worst). You would be amazed as to what is allowed as reasonable for the right to search for a weapon. A bulge that an officer states looked like a weapon; the out line of a knife, handing something to some one ( possible hand to hand drug transaction): the courts have routinely upheld all of these as PC for a stop, and therefore allowable for a weapons charge .....sad but true my friend.

I don't mean in the sense that a private citizen goes up and tries to fight an LEO who's bent on making an arrest. I mean in the sense that my lawyer goes up and fights the charges on my behalf. Unfortunately, the legal system is swayed in favor of those with means to fight such cases (this isn't a judgement but a statement of fact.)
 
Agreed but even lawyers can't do much with weapons charges. The only thing a lawyer can do is get you a ACD on the first round where a person with out a lawyer may have to go to court a few times before such a offer is made. This is only if you have a clean record before the arrest.....
 
Terry vs Ohio and the establishment of "Reasonable Articulable Suspicion" was the death of the 4th amendment in public spaces.

From the dissenting opinion:
"We hold today that the police have greater authority to make a 'seizure' and conduct a 'search' than a judge has to authorize such action. We have said precisely the opposite over and over again."

"To give the police greater power than a magistrate is to take a long step down the totalitarian path. Perhaps such a step is desirable to cope with modern forms of lawlessness. But if it is taken, it should be the deliberate choice of the people through a constitutional amendment."

Best of Luck to Knife Rights!
 
Move to another state: leave your home, your family, your friends, your community, your job, your whole way of life. Buy knives and guns, and in your frustration at having nothing else left, go out and shoot the place up.

There are lots of good reasons for packing up and leaving for greener pastures. Picking just one and leaving is over-reacting.
 
maybe I just got very lucky then. I am down here in fl and when the switchblade law was in question almost evey police officer said unless some one was going to get hurt they would stay away from people just carrying them. the police down here dont stop you just because they have nothing better to do.
 
I have to add - as a NYer - Upstate is nothing like downstate. No more than any other state in terms of overzealous law enforcement BS. My bigger fear is that the State Police will try enforcing the Manhattan interpretation of the law statewide. The craziest part of the whole deal is that NYs knife laws re "gravity knives" use pretty much the same language as most other states. Only in NYC and a few select environs do the police apply it in such a manner.
 
Move to another state: leave your home, your family, your friends, your community, your job, your whole way of life. Buy knives and guns, and in your frustration at having nothing else left, go out and shoot the place up.

There are lots of good reasons for packing up and leaving for greener pastures. Picking just one and leaving is over-reacting.

Agreed. But when you look at NYC as a whole its a mess. Not to sway too far off topic but just look at everything else involved with living in NYC:

*Taxes are absurdly high. Especially if you make a decent living. Oh and BTW, the local politicians do nothing but villify those that actually go out and succeed. I guess its easier to garner votes from the projects when you set the bar at welfare and then shit on those who strive to reach above it.
* Guns and knives are effectively banned. Your personal safety and welfare are the responsibility of the friendly NYPD. Nevermind that their actual record with solving violent crime is abysmal. To be fair its gotten better but that's a relative term.
* Personal liberties are curtailed. Citizen's making choices for themselves is discouraged. For example, smoking may not be the best thing for you but shouldn't an adult be allowed to make that decision for him/herself.
* Constant traffic/difficulty getting around. There is a concentration of "landmarks" and important buildings. Obama decides to make a speech at the UN and your existence is completely f**cked if you're anywhere near the East side. Oh and btw, if you happen to be anywhere near these "landmarks" well then your personal freedom means nothing. Random searches near ground zero for any reason the NYPD deems? You betcha.
* Illegal immigration is encouraged as is lower quality of life. Who cares if the average citizen is paying $2000+ for a 1BR apt on top of already the highest taxes in the country. Let's build more projects and allow boarding houses in our neighborhoods.
*Schools? Those are purely awesome. The graduation rate is something like 48%. Which actually wouldn't too bad if taxes dollars flowed from the district into the respective school. Instead we're busy busing kids in from poorer areas into areas which should otherwise afford decent schooling. I guess private school is an alternative at $30,000/year (and that's a bargain) assuming your kid gets in. Think about this: a citizen goes out and does well, he buys a house/apt, his property and income taxes (which are already absurd) goto fund a school in his district except often enough that school is over-crowded with kids from other parts of town. One of two things happens: (1) his kids get a substandard education (with 40 kids per class) or (2) his kid gets bussed to a crap part of town since that's the only place that they have room.

Sure I grew up here and I love it but for the reasons mentioned above I simply can't see myself staying here longer term (e.g. raising a family)

I have to add - as a NYer - Upstate is nothing like downstate. No more than any other state in terms of overzealous law enforcement BS. My bigger fear is that the State Police will try enforcing the Manhattan interpretation of the law statewide. The craziest part of the whole deal is that NYs knife laws re "gravity knives" use pretty much the same language as most other states. Only in NYC and a few select environs do the police apply it in such a manner.

Give it a little time under Cuomo. Nothing like an over zealous pinko former state prosecutor to turn your world upside down.
 
Back
Top