NYC Legality question

J

JP104

Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
15
I am looking to buy an EDC carry. So, now I am looking at the ESEE Izula. These are the stats:

ESEE IZULA & Concealed Carry Knife
Specifications:
Overall Length: 6.25 in.
Blade Length (end of handle to tip): 2.88 in.
Thickness: .156 in.
Steel: 1095 Carbon
Weight: 2 ounces without sheath
Finish: Textured powder coat Black
Blade Width: 1.0 in.

How does NYC measure legal length? I saw on the 265.01 code that it says blade under 4". Does that mean the entire length of the knife, which in the above case would be illegal (6.25" for the izula) or the actual blade length (2.88" for the izula) which would be legal.

Thanks in advance for your help!
 
Last edited:
as far as state law goes (PL265), there is not actual blade length restrictions, so I don't know where you got the 4" thing from. As far as new york city specifically, yes, they have a 4 inch blade length restriction;that refers to the length of the blade, not the OAL.

also, be careful, because NYC requires any knife carried to be concealed.
 
Last edited:
I found the 4" length rule on section 10-134. I'm just not sure if I am interpreting it correctly :)

B. It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, offer for sale within the jurisdiction of the city of New York any folding knife with a blade length of four or more inches which is so constructed that when it is opened it is locked in an open position and cannot be closed without depressing or moving a release mechanism.


So, I guess the Izula should be ok since it's blade is 2.88" if legality isn't determined by overall length? Just paranoid since NYC seems to make up it's own laws as suits it's purposes.

Thank you for your answer!
 
JP104 said:
I found the 4" length rule on section 10-134. I'm just not sure if I am interpreting it correctly :)

B. It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, offer for sale within the jurisdiction of the city of New York any folding knife with a blade length of four or more inches which is so constructed that when it is opened it is locked in an open position and cannot be closed without depressing or moving a release mechanism.


So, I guess the Izula should be ok since it's blade is 2.88" if legality isn't determined by overall length? Just paranoid since NYC seems to make up it's own laws as suits it's purposes.

Thank you for your answer!
Click to expand...

ok...you got the 4" rule from NYC law, not PL265...

So, yes, the Izula according to length laws is legal.

You may wish to check with a couple of local LEO's about carrying a fixed blade...
 
The law in NY uses the catch all phrase "dangerous knife" meaning your possession of any knife is presumptive evidence that you intend to use the knife unlawfully against another individual.

265.15 Presumptions of possession, unlawful intent and defacement.

4. ... The possession by any person of any dagger, dirk, stiletto, dangerous knife or any other weapon, instrument, appliance or substance designed, made or adapted for use primarily as a weapon, is presumptive evidence of intent to use the same unlawfully against another.
 
Maybe I should just carry a leatherman instead. However, if it can be flicked open I'll probably be convicted for carrying a gravity knife if searched. :(

I thought I'd get around that by carrying a small fixed blade knife (aka the Izula) but I guess that'd be considered a dangerous weapon. I have a HEST, but it's a bit too aggressive looking to carry around. I just need something to cut boxes open with at work...sigh
 
2edgesword said:
The law in NY uses the catch all phrase "dangerous knife" meaning your possession of any knife is presumptive evidence that you intend to use the knife unlawfully against another individual.

265.15 Presumptions of possession, unlawful intent and defacement.

4. ... The possession by any person of any dagger, dirk, stiletto, dangerous knife or any other weapon, instrument, appliance or substance designed, made or adapted for use primarily as a weapon, is presumptive evidence of intent to use the same unlawfully against another.
Click to expand...

thats why I said he should check with some local LEO's about it...

the key thing with this though is to prove intent. If he intended to use it as a tool, he (technically) would be legal. In order to convict the prosecution would have to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his intentions were to use the knife as a weapon.


as for a suggestion, you could try a balisong (just be sure to keep it concealed, so that it doesn't print), as long as it has less than a 4 inch blade. Balisongs are not considered gravity knives because they do not lock when open.
 
The term "dangerous knife" must be tied to intent, as posted above, but not every knife automatically falls into that defintion. A knife with a tanto, dagger, bayonet balde will be a weapon by design and therefore a "dangerous knife", but another knife would not be, unless you are so foolish as to state that you are carrying it as a weapon ( including self defense). I posted this about a year ago, about how the QNTF ( NYPD unit) had pulled over a car with three males in it that had an open box of steak knives in the back seat. The officers asked what the steak knives were for and the three men stated they were for self defense as they had a group after them for awhile. The three men were all arrested under 265.01 for the "dangerous knife" charge simply because they stated they were for self defense....
 
"Balisongs are not considered gravity knives because they do not lock when open" as posted above.

They have been proven to not be gravity knives BUT they are clearly defined as Dangerous knives and the legal division of the NYPD instructs officers to call them such in the arrest report as they as weapons by design....
 
stealthchaser13 said:
thats why I said he should check with some local LEO's about it...

the key thing with this though is to prove intent. If he intended to use it as a tool, he (technically) would be legal. In order to convict the prosecution would have to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his intentions were to use the knife as a weapon..
Click to expand...

Accord to the statued simply carrying any dangerous knife is presumptive evidence that you intent to use it unlawfully against another individual. It's ridiculous but that is the way the statued is written.
 
tom19176 said:
The term "dangerous knife" must be tied to intent, as posted above, but not every knife automatically falls into that defintion. A knife with a tanto, dagger, bayonet balde will be a weapon by design and therefore a "dangerous knife", but another knife would not be, unless you are so foolish as to state that you are carrying it as a weapon ( including self defense). I posted this about a year ago, about how the QNTF ( NYPD unit) had pulled over a car with three males in it that had an open box of steak knives in the back seat. The officers asked what the steak knives were for and the three men stated they were for self defense as they had a group after them for awhile. The three men were all arrested under 265.01 for the "dangerous knife" charge simply because they stated they were for self defense....
Click to expand...

Any knife with a sharpened edge and point is a knife that can inflict serious damage and is a dangerous knife. And according to NY law just the simple fact that you are carrying such a knife is presumptive evidence of your intent to use it unlawfully.
 
I would have to disagree with the "any knife" statement. You have to prove intent with a non weapon knife. That maybe as simple as asking where or not it is being carried as a weapon. As bad as NY is, a small folding knife that is carried as a tool, and is not a gravity knife or switchbalde is still legal.
 
I honestly don't understand how the second amendment does not come into play here. For any/all knives.

As you can (as the laws so clearly do) define a knife as a possible weapon, i.e. "arm". So the right to bear arms is severly curtailed at best by these law makers.

I simply could not live in a city like that, I don't take my freedoms for granted, but I don't have to get up in the morning and decide what I can legally carry. Be it a billie club, stun gun, knife, (including switchblades) firearms, pepper spray, etc. I feel for you guys, no freedom up there. Support Kniferights. I give them all I can afford.
 
Thank you all for your feedback!

I'll probably go with a simple swiss army knife to avoid any problems. I really wanted the izula, and will probably still buy one just to have it, but I can't justify the risk of EDCing it for work.
 
tom19176 said:
I would have to disagree with the "any knife" statement. You have to prove intent with a non weapon knife. That maybe as simple as asking where or not it is being carried as a weapon. As bad as NY is, a small folding knife that is carried as a tool, and is not a gravity knife or switchbalde is still legal.
Click to expand...

Hi Tom,

Not to beat a dead horse but the statute says "any dangerous knife". Show me a knife that is not dangerous and I'll show you a knife that is not worth carrying.

The statute also says that the carrying of any dangerous knife is presumptive evidence that you intend to use it unlawfully so the proof of intent is the simple fact that you are carrying a knife.
 
How about one of the Spyderco Slipits? The UKPK and Urban have been out for a while and they are just now releasing a new lightweight version of the UKPK with FRN scales. Would something like this fall under "dangerous knife"? What if it wasn't cleaned very often and still had the residue from opening packages/boxes?

SP94PGY3.jpg
 
2Dead

It's a knife, it's has a sharpened edge (cutting) and it has a point (stabbing) so it is dangerous knife.
 
well, lol in NYC u here are the laws u gata abide by man and this isn;t official legal advice.. but just my 2 cents...

anyway here they are

1)blade must be under 4inches
2) NO LOCK there cant be a lock on the knife
3) it MUST be concealed... or ur considered being a menace to the public if they can see it
4) and u must not have any intent to use it as a weapon...
5) you must be 16 years of age or older...
6) you cant open it with one hand... .or flick it out... open.. it needs to be opened 2 handed..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top