NYC/NY Law on Griptilian

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Sorry to pound you guys with another question, but you helped me on the last one so I'll try again. Would the Benchmade Mini-Griptilian be illegal, technically and otherwise? Any help is appreciated and thanks in advance.
 
Recent cases seem to make it an illegal "gravity knife" even though it's no such thing.

If you do carry it, it would be prudent to tighten down the pivot as much as possible, carry it well concealed (no "printing") and don't give anyone any reason to search you.

Standard disclaimer - the above is info gleaned from other Bladeforums threads. It does not constitute legal advice. I'm not responsible or liable for your decisions.
 
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Recent cases seem to make it an illegal "gravity knife" even though it's no such thing.

If you do carry it, it would be prudent to tighten down the pivot as much as possible, carry it well concealed (no "printing") and don't give anyone any reason to search you.
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I rather not take the chance so thanks for the information. Its a pity- seemed like a great knife.
 
Fraser said:
I am not a lawyer. I do not give out legal advice.

However, the New York City Administrative Code makes for interesting reading.

http://law.onecle.com/new-york/new-york-city-administrative-code/ADC010-133_10-133.html
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Yes - right on target, but it's only part of the story.

Because there are other sections of New York State and New York City statutory law that are applicable to knives.

Such as:

New York - Penal Law Section 265.01.

A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:

(1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or
(5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a citizen of the United States...

Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A
misdemeanor.

- Section 265.00 4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife. 5. "Gravity knife" means any knife has blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device. 5-a. "Pilum ballistic knife" means any knife which has a blade which can be projected from the handle by hand
pressure applied to a button, lever, spring or other device in the handle of the knife. 5-b. "Metal knuckle knife" means a weapon that, when closed, cannot function as a set of metal knuckles, nor as a knife and when open, can function as both a set of metal knuckles as well as a knife.

- 265.04. It shall be unlawful for any person under the age of sixteen to possess any... dangerous knife... A person who violates the provisions of this section shall be adjudged a juvenile delinquent. [Found unconstitutionally
vague by Superior Court, 1982; finding reversed by Court of Appeals, 1983]

- Section 265.10... 1. Any person who manufactures or causes to be manufactured... any switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum ballistic knife... is guilty of a class A misdemeanor... 4. Any person who disposes of any of
the weapons, instruments or appliances specified in subdivision one of section 265.01, except a firearm, is guilty of a class A misdemeanor, and he is guilty of a class D felony if he has been previously convicted of any crime.

- Section 265.15 Presumption of possession, unlawful intent, and defacement... 2. The presence in any stolen vehicle of any weapon... specified in
sections 265.01... is presumptive evidence of its possession by all persons occupying such vehicle... 3. The presence in an automobile, other than a stolen one or a public omnibus, of any firearm... gravity knife, switchblade knife... is presumptive evidence of its possession by all persons occupying such vehicle... except... (a) if such weapon... is found upon the person of one of the occupants therein; b) is such weapon... is found in an automobile which is being operated for hire by a duly licensed driver... then such presumption shall not apply to the driver...4... The possession by any person of any dagger, dirk,
stiletto, dangerous knife or any other weapon, instrument, appliance or substance designed, made or adapted for use primarily as a weapon, is presumptive evidence of intent to use the same unlawfully against another.

S 265.20 Exemptions.
a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11,
265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 shall not apply to:

1. Possession of any of the weapons, instruments, appliances or substances specified in sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05 and 270.05 by the following:
(a) Persons in the military service of the state of New York when duly
authorized by regulations issued by the adjutant general to possess the same.
(b) Police officers as defined in subdivision thirty-four of section 1.20 of the criminal procedure law.
(c) Peace officers as defined by section 2.10 of the criminal procedure law.
(d) Persons in the military or other service of the United States, in
pursuit of official duty or when duly authorized by federal law, regulation or order to possess the same.
(e) Persons employed in fulfilling defense contracts with the government of the United States or agencies thereof when possession of the same is necessary for manufacture, transport, installation and testing under the requirements of such contract.
(f) A person voluntarily surrendering such weapon, instrument, appliance or substance, provided that such surrender shall be made to the superintendent of the division of state police or a member thereof designated by such superintendent, or to the sheriff of the county in which such person resides, or in the county of Nassau or in the towns of Babylon, Brookhaven, Huntington, Islip and Smithtown in the county of Suffolk to the commissioner of police or a member of the police department thereof designated by such commissioner, or if such person resides in a city, town other than one named in this subparagraph, or village to the police commissioner or head of the police force or department thereof or to a member of the force or department designated by such commissioner or head; and provided, further, that the same shall be surrendered by such person in accordance with such terms and conditions as may be established by such superintendent, sheriff, police force or department. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as granting immunity from prosecution for any crime or offense except that of unlawful possession of such weapons, instruments, appliances or substances surrendered as herein provided. A person who possesses any such weapon, instrument, appliance or substance as an executor or administrator or any other lawful possessor of such property of a decedent may continue to possess such property for a period not over fifteen days. If such property is not lawfully disposed of within such period the possessor shall deliver it to an appropriate official described in this paragraph or such property may be delivered to the superintendent of state police. Such officer shall hold it and shall thereafter deliver it on the written request of such executor, administrator or other lawful possessor of such property to a named
person, provided such named person is licensed to or is otherwise lawfully permitted to possess the same. If no request to deliver the property is received by such official within two years of the delivery of such property, such official shall dispose of it in accordance with the provisions of section 400.05 of this chapter.

2. Possession of a machine-gun, large capacity ammunition feeding device, firearm, switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum ballistic knife, billy or blackjack by a warden, superintendent, headkeeper or deputy of a state prison, penitentiary, workhouse, county jail or other institution for the detention of persons convicted or accused of crime or detained as witnesses in criminal cases, in pursuit of official duty or when duly authorized by regulation or order to possess the same...

6. Possession of a switchblade or gravity knife for use while hunting, trapping or fishing by a person carrying a valid license issued to him pursuant to section 11-0713 of the environmental conservation law...

8. The manufacturer of machine-guns, assault weapons, large capacity ammunition feeding devices, disguised guns, pilum ballistic knives, switchblade or gravity knives, billies or blackjacks as merchandise and the disposal and shipment thereof direct to a regularly constituted or appointed state or municipal police department, sheriff, policeman or other peace officer, or to a state prison, penitentiary, workhouse, county jail or other institution for the detention of persons convicted or accused of crime or held as witnesses in criminal cases, or to the military service of this state or of the United States[....]



And then of course there's case law, which has interpreted some of the above...
 
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The way the law is being interpreted in NYC these days, any axis lock knife is illegal. You can pull back the axis bar, turn your wrist, and the blade will deploy by gravity. They will get you for it if they find one on you.
 
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another;

So then why is it illegal to carry a weapon for self-defense? Self-defense is legal in New York.

What's even more hypocritical about this is that retired NYC cops and rich celebrities can get CCW permits to carry guns. But everyone else has no right to carry anything more lethal than pepper spray. :barf:
 
auspx said:
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another;

So then why is it illegal to carry a weapon for self-defense? Self-defense is legal in New York.
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Because Section 265.15 creates a presumption...

Section 265.15: Presumption of...unlawful intent ... The possession by any person of any dagger, dirk,
stiletto, dangerous knife or any other weapon, instrument, appliance or substance designed, made or adapted for use primarily as a weapon, is presumptive evidence of intent to use the same unlawfully against another.

____________________________________________


So, if claiming self defense, a defendant would have to overcome the presumption of "intent to use the [weapon] unlawfully against another".

This places a significantly higher burden of proof on the defendant than if the "presumption" of unlawful intent was not written into the statute.
 
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Well, if self defense is legal, then intent to defend onesself is not "intent to use the [weapon] unlawfully against another".
 
Self-defense is legal. Use of a knife in self-defense can be legal. Use of a knife otherwise seen by the law as a dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon creates an impression that the knife was there in antiicipation of an opportunity to use it.

This is why "found weapons" are legally easier to explain and defend. "No, your honor, I did have a pocket knife but hesitated to harm someone with the little thing, and that's why I bashed him in the head with a brick I saw lying nearby."

:)
 
joe-bob said:
Well, if self defense is legal, then intent to defend onesself is not "intent to use the [weapon] unlawfully against another".
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Absolutely true.
But there is a presumption of unlawful use in the statute, and that presumption must be overcome if claiming self defense.


I think that the general point of the thread is that New York City is not a knife-friendly place, and a Benchmade Griptilian - or any Axis Lock knife -
is probably an illegal carry there.
 
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And yet Paragon Sporting Goods on 18th Street and Broadway still sells locking Spyderco knives that can be easily flicked open. They don't get prosecuted.

If "gravity knives" are illegal to carry and to own in New York, then how can these stores keep selling them?
 
Actually, Esav, they are illegal to sell and possess. In NY possess means to have control over the item anywhere including your house. Therefore they are illegal unless you have a fishing/hunting/trapping license to own. I have expressed countless times that they should go after the sellers if you are going after someone who possess a knife like this. In NYC the NYPD tends to refer items offered fro sale in stores that should not be sold to the Office of Consumer Affairs. They made one raid back in 2003 and arrested several shop owners for sale of gravity knives and then never did that again. I would love to see the sellers arrested ONLY because they may then finally pay a good lawyer to try and get some good case law on what a gravity knife is. I will also say back in the bad old Times Square days, the shops that sold knives and holsters for guns were often the stalking grounds for officers looking to make arrest. You watch a guy buy a holster and do a stop and frisk a block away to find the gun. Watch a guy buy a knife that flicks open and there is an arrest a block away.....
 
Every time I read something like this, I lose yet further incentive to go into the City. Such a small thing, but it makes it an alien place to me, after all these years. Depressing.
 
I agree !! I grew up in Hollis Queens and always carried a knife. I knew "switchblades" where a no no but never thought a knife that could be flicked open was illegal. When I sat down in the weapons law class and watched the instructor flick open a 007 and say that was a illegal gravity knife I was shocked. It was years later before some one would be arrested just for a knife charge, BUT now that is a daily event....
 
Since almost every locking folder is a "gravity knife" in NYC and a non-locking folder is unsafe to use... what small fixed blade knife would be legal in NYC?

Are all fixed blades seen as "dirks", "daggers", and "dangerous" knives too?
 
and a non-locking folder is unsafe to use...
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I carry both, and I actually cut myself more frequently with my locking folder (Benchmade Pika)- closing it- the comfortable grip ergonomics put my fingers in the wrong place when I close it. Actually, I am usually more apt to use one of my traditionals, or an SAK. As long as the backsprings are solid, I don't worry. Sodbusters are a nice, decent sized, non-locking folder (yes, they also made locking versions) if you like something handfilling. There is also many traditional lock knives that utilize a liner lock and a backspring, which adds a lot of resistance to blade, and keeps it from being flickable.
 
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