NYC/NY Law on Griptilian

auspx said:
Since almost every locking folder is a "gravity knife" in NYC and a non-locking folder is unsafe to use... what small fixed blade knife would be legal in NYC?

Are all fixed blades seen as "dirks", "daggers", and "dangerous" knives too?
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Not all - but many of course could be seen that way.

You'd want something non-threatening looking with an easy, common sense explanation of why you have it with you in case you're asked.

(Also, there are plenty over in the traditional forum who might disagree with your statement that non-locking folders are unsafe to use.) :)
 
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"Since almost every locking folder is a "gravity knife" in NYC and a non-locking folder is unsafe to use... what small fixed blade knife would be legal in NYC?"

This is really not correct. There are many locking knives that cannot be flicked open such as a Fallkiniven U2 and TK3, both of which sometimes carry when in the city.
 
divebuddydave said:
There are many locking knives that cannot be flicked open such as a Fallkiniven U2 and TK3, both of which sometimes carry when in the city.
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If you can hold the locking knife by the blade and flip the handle open then it's a "gravity knife" in NYC.

Few if any folders can't be opened this way. Even Victorinox SAK lockblades can be opened this way. Police officers are allowed multiple attempts to flip the knife open when testifying in court. If it flips open and it locks it's a "gravity knife" in NYC.
 
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Tom19176 made a good comment about NYC and NYPD.

In Bernie Kerik's autobiography he said that when he was a beat cop in Times Square he made a deal with the sellers. They would place illegal purchases in a brightly colored bag. Kerik would look for the customer to come out of a store with the bright bag and then go make a stop, frisk and arrest.

Some may consider this entrapment and thus illegal. Bernie Kerik doing something illegal? I can't believe it.:D
 
Bernie let the secret out !!!! I have about ten pictures in my office of me with Rudy G, Kelly, and a few other of that sort and Bernie is in two......they are still up only because I look good in them....lol
 
Would an axis lock knife like the Griptillian be illegal in NYC if the pivot is tightened down and it can't be flicked?
 
KnifeGuy07 said:
Would an axis lock knife like the Griptillian be illegal in NYC if the pivot is tightened down and it can't be flicked?
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I recall in one case, NYPD applied graphite powder to make a knife be able to open by centrifugial force. The judge allowed it, resulting in the knife being an illegal gravity knife. I personally would not want to get involved with a knife that could easily by reconfigured into something illegal to carry. If the courts will allow graphite powder, what will their position be on a few turns with an allen key or a torx bit? (If I'm misremembering the details of the graphite case Tom, let me know)
 
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It is a sad sad time that we live in. I bet the criminals don't spend this kind of time obsessing about the legality of knife carry. Just one more reason I won't go there. My opinion, buy the grip and to hell with the laws. Hide it well and no one will ever know. All this crap about what do I do if I get stopped, seriously I have been carrying knives for 20 years and not only have I never been questioned I have never even been so much as stopped. I mean no offense to the guy wondering about it but seriously is this really an issue? When you buy a car do you worry how many speeding tickets its going to get you? I have lived in the south for 10 years and visit my family in PA several times, I travel through about five states in the process and nobody even bats an eye, I clip what ever knife I want in my pocket a just go. I Don't even give it a second thought. That being said I read through the thread, my understanding is that the knife has to be carried with the intent to commit a crime. Also the type of force required to open a grip in such a way imo is borderline abuse and since I don't treat my knives this way I would have no idea how to open a knife in such a manor...or at least thats what I would say. Sometimes pretending to be inept is a good thing. Presentation is everything...or is it a lack there of....
 
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I find myself being troubled by these issues every day, and still don't really know why it is like this in New York. The owner of a knife store in Long Island told me that you can carry a single edged blade, no matter the size, in Long Island. that is where I live, and occasionally carry a bigger knife than my TOPS Interceptor, and do not want to be penalized for what I feel is the Right to Bare Arms! However, I carry at least a 4 inch fixed blade every day in Long Island, and even when I go to the city. You never know when it will be worth it.
 
mp510 said:
I recall in one case, NYPD applied graphite powder to make a knife be able to open by centrifugial force. The judge allowed it, resulting in the knife being an illegal gravity knife. I personally would not want to get involved with a knife that could easily by reconfigured into something illegal to carry. If the courts will allow graphite powder, what will their position be on a few turns with an allen key or a torx bit? (If I'm misremembering the details of the graphite case Tom, let me know)
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How could the judge allow this?

Just because (A) can be converted into (B) doesn't mean (A) = (B) at the time it was seized by the police.

What if the police take someone's registered, legally owned shotgun, then saw off the barrel and convert it to an illegal weapon. Would this be acceptable evidence too? WTF?! Under this twisted interpretation of the law anyone who owns kitchen knives could be arrested for "weapon posession".
 
auspx said:
How could the judge allow this?

Just because (A) can be converted into (B) doesn't mean (A) = (B) at the time it was seized by the police.

What if the police take someone's registered, legally owned shotgun, then saw off the barrel and convert it to an illegal weapon. Would this be acceptable evidence too? WTF?! Under this twisted interpretation of the law anyone who owns kitchen knives could be arrested for "weapon posession".
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The sawn-off shotgun analogy is the one I was thinking of when I read that. In principle, sawing the bbl. of the shotgun down is the same thing as adding graphite to a knife's pivot. The only answer I can think of as to why the judge allowed this, is that he/she/it is corrupt, has a twisted sense of justice, or both.:mad::(:barf:
 
mp510, I never heard of the adding of graphite allowed as I would believe that to be tampering with evidence. I have seen several guys flicking open a gravity knife to see how easily or not it opens. This will of course cause it to loosen even more, but it would be rare for anyone to offically call that tampering with evidence. Have I heard stories of guys turning a screw driver side ways in the handle of the knife to create a wide gap and a loose blade....there are always stories but that I have never seen before my eyes. The fact that it is talked about is concerning......
 
Is it illegal to drive through NYC with a fixed blade over 4 inches if you are just driving through and not stopping?
 
rifon2....very good and to the point. Similar to the memo book PL but much more detail....
 
rifon2 said:
This is the best and most thorough treatment of NYS/NYC rules re: knife carry that I've seen.
It's very, very accurate.

http://www.attackproof.com/laws-regarding-knives.html
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*Presumption of Unlawful Intent [P.L. 265.15 (4)]: "The possession by any person of any dagger, dirk, stilleto, dangerous knife or any other weapon, instrument, appliance or substance designed, made, or adapted for use primarily as a weapon, is presumptive evidence of intent to use the same unlawfully against another".

*This presumption can not be used for a razor blade, box cutter or knife that is not designed, made or adapted for use primarily as a weapon. Without the presumption, indepedent evidence such as manner of use, circumstances of possession, or statements obtained, are required to make out probable cause that the weapon was possessed with intent to use unlawfully.
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So how would the NYPD view multitools such as the Leatherman Wave or the Victorinox SAK lockblades? With enough effort the blades of these tools can still be flipped open.
 
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auspx, most of the blades on them don't lock so they are not then gravity knives. If the blade does lock then you may have an issue.
They missed the fishing-hunting-trapping exception for possession on the state law, as they only show it for the city Admin code, other wise a nice short info sheet. These days DATs are rarely given and you would go "in the system" for a A Misd, so this is a bit dated....
 
auspx said:
How could the judge allow this?

Just because (A) can be converted into (B) doesn't mean (A) = (B) at the time it was seized by the police.

What if the police take someone's registered, legally owned shotgun, then saw off the barrel and convert it to an illegal weapon. Would this be acceptable evidence too? WTF?! Under this twisted interpretation of the law anyone who owns kitchen knives could be arrested for "weapon posession".
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Happens all the time with BATFE. A guy just got several years in federal prison because his AR-15 malfunctioned and fired a full-auto burst. Cops who happened to be at the range notified BATFE agents and the hunt was on! The guys at the BATFE firearms lab had to use special soft primer ammo to get the rifle to "slam-fire", but were able to do it after much effort. The (former) gun owner is now a convicted and incarcerated federal felon!:mad:
 
tom19176 said:
mp510, I never heard of the adding of graphite allowed as I would believe that to be tampering with evidence. I have seen several guys flicking open a gravity knife to see how easily or not it opens. This will of course cause it to loosen even more, but it would be rare for anyone to offically call that tampering with evidence. Have I heard stories of guys turning a screw driver side ways in the handle of the knife to create a wide gap and a loose blade....there are always stories but that I have never seen before my eyes. The fact that it is talked about is concerning......
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Tom, I just checked Westlaw, and couldn't find the case. I could swear I read about it somewhere, but I could just as easily be misrecollecting or it could be an urban legend or something.
 
mp510, if you do find it let me know, but I have got to say it seems a bit out there that a court would allow it. I remember arresting six people at the Grand Hyatt Hotel in NYC for theft of service and possession of stolen credit cards. The room was locked by hotel management and the suspects transported to MTS for booking. One of the susupects was a pro basketball play of not that well known fame. A detective went back to the room to collect any credit card slips as evidence, and found 58 packs of herion in a zipper case. The drug charge was dropped due to the fact that a officer was not safe guarding the evidence the whole time.....this sort of concern for evidence safe guarding leads me to not believe some stories you hear.....
 
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