NYC Show Disappointment....

Joined
Sep 24, 2000
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Did anybody besides me miss the factory / importer's tables at the NYC Show? Maybe it is because I missed the last few NY Shows and things have changed, but I came away from this one a bit disappointed. I remember past shows having a good representation of these tables, so what happened? The guys at the Spyderco table had quite a crowd - with lots of steel being sold - so there is certainly an interest in factory blades. Something political here - custom makers keeping out the "competition"? Or have the factory guys just written off this show?

Don't get me wrong - lots of great people there to meet - and learn a bit from - and the usual fine showing of custom blades as expected.... and yeah, I know it is the "Custom" knife show, but heck, I also came there to pick up a coupla user blades and would have loved the chance to handle a some before I bought, rather than buying off an internet photo Seems like there should be a place for both quality factory blades and the work of custom makers at a show.
 
Usually when a knife show has the word Custom in it's name the organizers only want what the industry as a whole considers custom knives at the show.

It is not the makers, it is the organizors who make that decision. In general, I doubt that many makers at the NY show have much concern over the competition from factory knives.
 
I'm sorry you were disappointed, Maury. I'm not sure what companies you mean but I do remember Benchmade & REKAT being there in the past. For me, having the production folks there is an opportunity to handle some pieces prior to a later purchase. IIRC, factory knife prices at the show were just about at MSRP.
 
I understand that when a show is named a Custom Knife Show that that is what you will find there. Following that logic, it seems a little odd to me that Spyderco would have a table there. If that is the case then all the other manufacturers should have been welcome as well.

Personally, I would go to a Custom Knife Show to see custom knives, and would be rather surprised to see manufacturer tables there.
 
There has always been an assortment of production knives at the NY show. There were many empty tables this year, possibly because some were reluctant to fly or due to the cost of the table. Last year Paragon,Benchmade,Spyderco,Skylands Cutlery,and a few other dealers were there, I am sure it was their decision this year, not the show promoters.

Dave
 
I know a lot of folks asked about the manufacturers not being there. I also understand your reason for being dissapointed, but when you don't see what you want it leaves you a lot of time to look at what you never planned to. It's a shame you didn't enjoy yourself with all the great knives that were there for your viewing pleasure. I saw dozens of handmade knives at the prices a lot of guys pay for production knives. Okay, so you were probably looking for tactical folders and at that price point you would be looking at handmade fixed blades, still I'm pretty sure if you tried you could have found something you'd like. I went with no money to buy a knife and still had a great time, but my reasons for going weren't just for the knives, it was for the people. ;)
 
Originally posted by lifter4Him
There has always been an assortment of production knives at the NY show.


Hmmm...I wonder what Les Robertson would have to say to that?? :eek:

:D
 
Hi Dexter,

The name of the knife show is "The New York Custom Knife Show". My question is not why are there so few factory knive there. It is why are there any?

The main reason you only see the Big Factories being represented there is primarily the $650 table fee. The other fees involved will differ among table holders.

The other reason they participate in the show, was to provide knives for those who either did not want or could not afford the custom knives.

Spyderco has been across from me for the last three years. They are knowledgeable knife professionals who I enjoy talking with every year.

As someone pointed out, their knives do not compete with the custom knives. I personally feel no pangs of jealousy when I see someone purchase a $85.00 Spyderco.

Personally, I feel if the show is a "custom knife show" then there should be no factory knives in the room.

However, as someone pointed out earlier, it is totally up to the show promoters.

If it bothered me that much, I guess I would not have given them a deposit for next year.
 
Originally posted by Les Robertson
Hi Dexter,

The name of the knife show is "The New York Custom Knife Show". My question is not why are there so few factory knive there. It is why are there any?
<snip>
Personally, I feel if the show is a "custom knife show" then there should be no factory knives in the room.

However, as someone pointed out earlier, it is totally up to the show promoters.

If it bothered me that much, I guess I would not have given them a deposit for next year.

Les,

As a retail buyer, I'm at the other end of the spectrum from you. Enjoy the custom tables, and the production ones. Production tables attract folks, who might initially be put off by the custom cost. Some of them, once lured in, might appreciate the difference, and step up to buy customs. As long as the custom makers don't suffer from the competition, the more the merrier.

A few tables did have production knives. And, there were tables selling non-knife merchandise. The ray skin purse I purchased for my wife, which, amazingly enough, she liked :cool:, fits into that category, unless you consider it as a lubricant necessary to knife purchase.

Alan
 
I was surprised that BM was not there, but I enjoyed the show and had great conversations with Darrel Ralph, Chris Reeve and others.

My only dissapointment was not meeting fellow forum members. I was there Sat. afternoon.

For the March Show, I'll get there at the opening bell. I think that's where most of you ran into each other.
 
Alan,

We were discussing factory and custom knives at a "Custom Knife Show".

Not the trinkets and such that were being sold. The ray skin items you speak of were probably on the table of Culpepper Pearl. Probably the biggest supplier of pearl in the custom knife business.

The ray skin is also used by custom knife makers for handle material. Also some makers have created knives that go in both the ray skin wallets and check book covers.

My point is this, if you are going to have factory knives, then call the show "The New York Knife Show". Using the word "custom" in your advertising could be misleading.

Just as there are seveal knife dealers who call themselves custom knife dealers.

They may even put it in the name of their business. However, they sell factory knives as well. Why not just call your self XYZ Knives instead of XYZ Custom Knives.

Are they custom knife dealers? No. They are meerly knife dealers who sell custom knives.

Perhaps I make the distinction more than most. When you go to the web site www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com, you will never find a factory knife. The same cannot be said for most "custom knife sites".

Im all for educating factory knife buyers to become custom knife buyers. However, as they already know what factory knives are, why would you need factory knives at a custom knife show?
 
Man, there's nothing I enjoy more than whipping a dead horse, except maybe for splitting hairs. :D

Les, since none of your customers have any input whatsoever in the making of the knives they buy from you, shouldn't they be called Handmade?
And shouldn't it be Robertson's Handmade Cutlery?
And aren't you really a Handmade Knife Purveyor?

Isn't it also true that any knife you buy off a makers table isn't custom either? So maybe you're right it should just be the New York Knife Show.
 
knifenerd mentions a March show. When is it and where? As big? I couldn't get to this show after planning on attending for months and was so angst-ridden my wife nearly killed me.
 
Stay tuned 92degrees. It'll be posted here. And it is also a large show held at the Crown Plaza Hotel, 49th St and Broadway. Kind of the north end of Times Square.
 
Bwahahahaha!

Now that was funny PhilL! :D

Oh Jesus, now I've got to clean the coffee off my screen and keyboard...BRB

"Giddyup goldarnit!" Bwahahahaha... :D
 
Spyderco has been working the New York "Custom" knife show since 1979 without missing any. They have been a feature of the show during all of those years. (It IS a show).

It was my understanding that a custom knife show has custom knives. I've never heard that it must be exclusively custom knives. I know the Guild and PKA Custom knife shows are exclusive to their makers (members of the club). I've been to "custom" knife shows all over the world and have not seen very many that were "custom" only.

Another point to share is that once the custom makers sell out, sometimes early on Friday, there is little left to "show" without the factories. The promoters still have the responsibility to provide a "show" that would be intersting to the knife afiocianado.

Many of the showgoers go to the show to see the factory pieces.

Just some thoughts to share.

sal
 
Phil,

Actually a large percentage of the knives I buy are custom knives. Take for example my Vanguard series. Every Vanguard knife starts as a custom knife. Every knife is made to my specifications and a Protoype is built. No matter who's definition you use it is a custom knife. Just because I eventually re-sell most of them, does not mean it is not a custom knife.

To be accurate and really split hairs. The arguement can be made that not only are the prototypes custom knives, but the first of the series is as well. Many of the prototypes remain one-of-a-kind custom knives, as I make changes to the knife that will in fact become part of one of my series. So technically, serial number one, again would be a custom knife (using the "Hair Splitters" guide) as it was changed and built to my new specifications. As it now differs from the prototype, this would make it a custom knife. Again, no matter which definition you use. I will agree with you that this is really splitting hairs.

The knife does not become a "custom" knife (brand name custom) until the second knife is built. At which time many inaccurately want to call it a "handmade" knife.

Of course as well all know, no knives are actually built only by hand. As every maker in the world now (and for quite some time) has and uses some sort of tool(s). Making the word "handmade" completely inaccurate regarding the construction of a knife we find in today's market. On exception could be, finding a piece of flint or glass (if it was broken, we have to insure that no tool was used. It could be argued that a brick, rock, piece of metal or the ground it's self could be classified as a tool by the "Hair Splitter's" Guide.

This flint, obsidian or glass could be attached to a stick by a vine or sinew of some type. This by the accurate definition would be a "hand made" knife. Of course your fellow hair splitters could counter that the use of additional materials such as a stick (anthropologist after studying the Chimpanzee found it used a stick to get termites out of their mound. Classfied the stick as a tool and the Chimp as a "tool user") negate the accurate definition of hand made. I will leave that for discussion among your fellow hair splitters.

Phil, even a hard core hair splitter like you would have to agree that the word(s) "handmade or hand made" cannot accurately be used to describe how knives are built today. Making the word handmade no longer relevant when discussing any type of knife that used a tool in it's construction.

Accurately, they would have to be called something like hand held or free standing, manual or electrically aided, non-computer or computer assisted tool made knives. Phil, as a certified "hair splitter" you of course are a stickler for accuracy. So, as you can see you use of the term "handmade" is inaccurate should be removed from your knife lexicon.

Consequently, you can see there is no reason for the name Robertson's Handmade Cutlery, as this type of cutlery (using the "Hair Splitters Guide) currently does not exist in the true form, any where in the world. If it cannot be made with your bare hands (hand made)than it cannot be accurately called hand made.

Which is why I call my business Robertson's Custom Cutlery. Because in fact, many of my knives are custom knives (using any definition you like) and all are custom knives. Using the definition that describes a brand or category of knives that has become part of knife lexicon.

As I do sell only custom knives (using both definitions). I do not sell hand made knives (as we have accurately established that knives are not made by hand (the makers use tools of some type), there by negating the true sense of the word as you "Hair Splitter's" stive for.

Finally, Phil, the Geno Denning knife you bought from me is not hand made, not a factory, not a semi-production and according to the dead horse beaters not a custom knife. So, honestly and accurately now, what would you call this knife?

When you come up with a name, perhaps you could submit it to the knife magazines, the Guild, ABS and all other knife organizations around the world for approval and recomendation for acceptance into the future lexicon of knives.

Phil, Im sure all who read this thank you for helping clarify this and look forward to your truly accurate definition of what to call the knives that you and millions around the world buy, sell and trade every day. .

Until that day arrives, the millions of us who buy, sell and trade knives every day will have to carry on with the term known and accepted world wide as "custom" knives.

For my part I will steer well clear of what you and other hair splitters have shown us to be a completely inaccurate term...."hand made".

Oh, one more thing, when you do arrive at your definition you will of course insure it covers every method of tool and application of that tool that exists today and will exist at least 50 years into the future. You don't want the next generation of hair splitters coming after you! :D
 
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