NYC Show Disappointment....

Would it be OK if I just mail you a blank check, Les? I really wanna do lots and lots of business with you now.:rolleyes: :confused:
 
Popcorn anyone?
:D

Maury, Go down to Iceberg on BWay and Spring (I think, between Prince and Canal... for sure;)) You can look at a bunch of production blades there & either pay their prices or look around on the web. They have a good selection ;)
 
Hi Sal,

Actually, there are several all custom knife shows across the country and Canada.

Five that come to mind are:

Las Vegas Classic Knife Show
South Eastern Custom Knife Show
Arkansas Custom Knife Show
The Art Knife Invitational
Canadian Knife Makers Guild Show.

As you mentioned earlier the PKA and Knifemakers Guild Show.

I belive the show in Tampa Florida this past October was all custom as well. Also, I believe the show in Missoula Montana held this past August is a all custom show. Im not sure, but I think the show Dave Harvey puts on in Solvang every April is a all custom show as well.

There are probably a few others I forgot as well.

You are correct, many makers do sell out on Friday.

However, not to fear. For the knife afiocianado, the 12 custom knife dealers at the show had well over 1,000 custom knives for the afiocianado to come an look at, even late into Sunday. These knives ranged in price from $75 to over $10,000 and were from not so famous, almost famous and world famous makers from around the world.
 
Hardheart,

I prefer that you decide on what you want, check and see if it is in stock and then I will get you a total with shipping.

Blank checks through the mail can be quite risky. Im just trying to look out for you.

I hope in your next post you will be mean to Phil as well....He started it!
 
First of all, thanks Phil. This was realy funny.
And Thank you too Les. Without you it would have only be half the fun.

BUT...
I can see the point in Phil's statement.
IIRC a custom knife has the influence of the customer built into it (I know this is a wide definition). So if you work with a custom-knifemaker on a new design it is a custom knife.
As you stated then only the first one of a series is a custom knife.
So you are selling customs and "handmades" (which I define that a knife is made with handheld tools by the maker).

I feel, that all pieces of such a series are customs.
And I also feel, that a handmade knife of a custom-knifemaker is a custom to me, because it has some influence of a customer built into it. At the best I'll even know the custumer who influenced the maker.

Greetings
red
(amateur haisplitter) lol
 
Dex, you started this. Any minute now we're gonna get the homework seminar :D

BTW, if you haven't checked out les's custom(?) knife buying book, it's a must read. Picked one up in NY and even if you've been around for awhile, you'll pick up a few ideas and tidbits.
Hey, wait a minute! Maybe the name should be Robertson Custom Book Purveyors :D
 
Originally posted by lifter4Him
Dex, you started this. Any minute now we're gonna get the homework seminar :D
Click to expand...

Dave - LOL! I can't come to school today....sick (cough cough) :D :D
 
Originally posted by red mag
First of all, thanks Phil. This was realy funny.
And Thank you too Les. Without you it would have only be half the fun.
Click to expand...

WOW! When I first read through this thread and got to Phil's thread, I laughed aloud, too! Without splitting hairs, it was a small poke at Les and, I thought, ALL of our overindulgence with this set of terms. Phil's spirit was pretty evident, and I thank you for the outburst.

Les, you are the MAN. You are so damn knowledgable about business and terms and our industry. I learn so much from you every time I read your posts. Thanks and keep it up!:)

BUT HAVING SAID THAT, you need to learn something again and again--as well as all of us. See this? ;) It says "I speak this, but I understand I'm pressing a little too hard and maybe taking myself too seriously." To a man, we ALL do this. All you needed to do was add in a few smileys and you would have had right punctuation for your response.

I don't know as much about knives and the industry as you or many, but I DO know a few things about human nature. Men can be jerks on a regular basis. Ease back and acknowledge it!

I love you guys, now BEAT it!:D

Coop (Who's always a jerk!)
 
Originally posted by Les Robertson

Finally, Phil, the Geno Denning knife you bought from me is not hand made, not a factory, not a semi-production and according to the dead horse beaters not a custom knife. So, honestly and accurately now, what would you call this knife?
Click to expand...

Okay, I got one for you, "What do you call a Boomerang that doesn't come back to you when you throw it?" :D

Actually the Denning knife I bought from you I do describe as a "Handmade Knife"

hand*made (adjective): made by hand or by a hand process.

and after all the song and dance it's still what I prefer to call it. Or I'll just tell people the knife was made by GenO Denning, based on a design by Bob Loveless, but most importantly it was bought from Les Robertson and then give them your website, where they can buy a copy of your book. ;)
 
Okay, so maybe Les doesn't really sell custom knives after all.

Wait, I've got it! Les Robertson's Sole Authorship Cutlery

Yeah, that's the ticket. ;)
 
Too bad we don't have a department of redundancy department on this forum:) Can't we all agree that a rose by any other name will smell as sweet, or a gray **** as nasty? Let's not split hairs. A lot of us, including myself, don't have that many extra.
David
 
okay my 02,

I as a knife maker can make a custom knife without any customer involved at all. I choose the steel, liners, scales and bolster, cut the file work ect. I plan this in my head and it is a true custom knife. A Customer isnt nessasary for it to be a custom knife and when I sell the knife the customer can still clim it as a custom knife even though it he didnt choose the materials.
 
I won't even try to define custom. The custom of using the word 'custom' for any knife made by one person is pretty obvious and customary even if some tough customers like Melvin and Phil want to give us all a handjob with a machine grinder.

I am still wondering how to define the word Sword.

Once I figure that out, the rest of the hand held cutting implements can probably all be called Knives. Unless they happen to be made by the Randall company in which case we should simply call them Randalls even if some guy named Jones ground them and a Smith named Smith forged them and some guy named Billy Bob put the parts together and a customer like Melvin picked a handle of Stag instead of wood which would make it a legitmate Custom Randall Jones Smith Billy Bob Purvis non-sword Knife.

In the future, all of us folks who care passionately about nomenclature should be sure to force all the Custom knife shows and the custom knife dealers and the custom knife makers to use the correct terminology and stop wasting our time with all this misleading and dishonest 'custom' crap.

If it cuts stuff and is not a sword, it is 'probably' a knife.

If it's made by one person, it's not a factory job.

And if the customer likes it, then everyone should be satisfied. Unless of course someone would like to discuss what what the meaning of Is is. :)

We all 'probably' know what we are talking about even if some of us like to play with ourselves a little more than is healthy and go blind.

Paracelsus
 
Originally posted by Paracelsus I won't even try to define custom. The custom of using the word 'custom' for any knife made by one person is pretty obvious and customary even if some tough customers like Melvin and Phil want to give us all a handjob with a machine grinder.
Click to expand...

Well there you have it, once again Para cuts to the chase.

By the way Coop :)

The Supreme Court of the US cannot define pornography. However, as the Chief Justice said "I cannot define it, but I can tell you what it is when I see it." :D

I suspect the same will hold true for the custom knife. :D

My sole purpose for trying to set up boundries for custom knives is to help those who don't know what they are.

As we are all quite aware of, there are those who will mis-represent a bench-made knife ( a group of craftsman assembling a knife) as something it is not. Namely, a custom (Brand Marketing Name) knife.
This mis-representation is done for the sole purpose of making a few extra bucks. This does not need to be part of the knife industry. :mad:

As I have stated many times, a rule of thumb should be, if you can submit a knife to the US Knifemakers Guild and it passes their critique, it is a custom (Brand Marketing Name) knife. :)

If not it is either a Bench-Made Style knife or Factory knife.

A category probably needs to be made for the very high quality factory knives. This would create a place for Randall's and others to exist. :)

As for me and my business, using the word custom seems to be working ok. I manage to sell a few custom (Brand Marketing Name) knives now and then. ;)
 
I'm going with Maury's thread statement that the NYC show was disappointing. Even the lighting was bad.

This is the first time I have been to the show in 3 or 4 years. Before this, I went to the show every year when it was at the Roosevelt Hotel, maybe from about '92 to '96. I also went to the East Coast Custom Knife Show at the Meadowlands; the last one was the 'Blizzard show'.

I got used to seeing certain people at the show year after year. Many of those faces were gone, or maybe they left early: Sam Cox, Damascus USA, Bob Dozier, Gil Hibben, Nolen Knives, Walt Stockdale, D'Alton Holder and Gary Collins, even that guy with the large selection of Randalls. I did not see any scrimshanders or engravers there at all. Others like Russel Easler (though without Paula), Jimmy Lile and the Crawfords did come back.

I remember seeing at the older shows 3 or 4 big multi-table spreads of major suppliers like MOP, Texas Knifemakers Supply, and I think Sheffield(?) as well as a number of little ones like Rick Fields, Boone Trading, Hiltary Agrilcultural and Tomway Corp. scattered about. This time just 1 large one, and 2 or 3 mid sized with some knifemakers selling their own damascus. There was a much better selection of Damascus billets than before though, and I bought a couple.

I remember when tables were full of knives of all descriptions sizes and shapes; now they were fairly sparse except for those selling from display cases various 'collections' possibly on consignment. I saw just a few miniatures here and there, except 1 dealer with a very nice collection of minis by Loos. Even the commercial manufacturers like Spyderco had smaller tables and displays than before.

The show used to be very crowded, even on it's last day, but this Sunday seemed pretty sparse by comparison. Maybe it was the fear of terrorism. Maybe the $700 table fee (I do recall complaints about the table fees and accommodations the last time I went, and a few makers stating it was their last show, in part, because of it.) Maybe because it used to be in 3 rooms, not just 1. Maybe, as one person stated 'it's a bad time of the year to hold a convention in NY, so close to the holidays'. Then, maybe it was just a bad time in general for anything.

I just thought it could have been much better.
Will have to wait for the next show in March.
 
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