nylatron vs ball bearings

[Menola]

So I've been playing with my new sheepdog since I got it Friday. It's so incredibly smooth it got me thinking why Ernie wouldn't be using bb on all his knives.

Then I started thinking if I'd even want my roadhouse, horeseman etc closing so easily without a fingerchoil from the flipper protecting my fingers. I have no complaints on the smoothness of the nylatron washers and actually like that the blades won't fall shut so easily but at the same time the bb are so nice.

I also thought there is always a chance of losing a bb when cleaning, which may be another reason to stick with nylatron washers. We all know Ernie likes to keep it simple stupid.

I know the iron dragon is supposed to have bb and doesn't have a flipper. I was wondering how that works as far as safety goes.

What do you guys think and prefer?

 

[115Italian]

Nylotron washers won’t corrode, rust or pit. They wont fill with dust dirt and debri and possibly prevent opening.

 

[mt666tm]

I had a couple knives with bearings. Sold them all. I prefer nylon washers for the exact reasons above. I got dirt in bearings and they got gritty and needed cleaning. My knives are tools and see dirt, mud, sand, etc regularly enough that I don't want to waste my time cleaning out bearings.

On my 7V I polished the scales and blade where they contact the nylon washers, and I polished the pivot. I also lightly sanded the washers with 800 followed by a sanding pad and a wipe of motor oil. It is damn near bearing smooth when opening/closing.

No flippers for me either. It's kind of a useless opening method for a tool knife as you have to get the knife lined up to flip and then adjust your grip when the blade opens. Takes too much time. And I hate when the blade hits my finger when closing.

Brass washers are nice though.

 

[Lapedog]

So I've been playing with my new sheepdog since I got it Friday. It's so incredibly smooth it got me thinking why Ernie wouldn't be using bb on all his knives.

Then I started thinking if I'd even want my roadhouse, horeseman etc closing so easily without a fingerchoil from the flipper protecting my fingers. I have no complaints on the smoothness of the nylatron washers and actually like that the blades won't fall shut so easily but at the same time the bb are so nice.

I also thought there is always a chance of losing a bb when cleaning, which may be another reason to stick with nylatron washers. We all know Ernie likes to keep it simple stupid.

I know the iron dragon is supposed to have bb and doesn't have a flipper. I was wondering how that works as far as safety goes.

What do you guys think and prefer?

The BBs Emerson uses are caged bearings which means they won’t fall out when you open up the knife. Rather they are connected on a little disk shaped like the teflon washers. (I believe Emersons use teflon washers)

That said I prefer the teflon washers immensely. I understand the BBs are needed for a smooth flipper action but the BBs run on very thin metal support washers. These type of thin metal support washers have had problems in other brands’ knives with deforming from the hard BBs rolling on them over a course of time. While I haven’t seen that on my cqc7 flipper yet I am worried it could happen with time.

Make sure to only tighten down pivots using ball bearings tight enough that there is no more blade play and do not crank them down as hard as they will go.

 

[Lapedog]

I had a couple knives with bearings. Sold them all. I prefer nylon washers for the exact reasons above. I got dirt in bearings and they got gritty and needed cleaning. My knives are tools and see dirt, mud, sand, etc regularly enough that I don't want to waste my time cleaning out bearings.

On my 7V I polished the scales and blade where they contact the nylon washers, and I polished the pivot. I also lightly sanded the washers with 800 followed by a sanding pad and a wipe of motor oil. It is damn near bearing smooth when opening/closing.

No flippers for me either. It's kind of a useless opening method for a tool knife as you have to get the knife lined up to flip and then adjust your grip when the blade opens. Takes too much time. And I hate when the blade hits my finger when closing.

Brass washers are nice though.

How did you sand down the teflon washers?

 

[Officer's Match]

Lock bar and Detent tab tension has as much, if not more to do with pivot "action". Most "single" detent (ie lock bar detent only) Emersons will fall shut if the lock bar is held off the blade (assuming the pivot is properly clean and adjusted).

 

[mt666tm]

How did you sand down the teflon washers?

Just put a square of sandpaper down on the table, throw the washer on top, and use your index finger on top of the washer to swirl it around. Same with the sanding pad.

I sand them down until no gloss/shine is visible. This always smooths my knives out. I reassemble with a light wipe of motor oil, or sometimes dry depending on what I'm using the knife for as dry won't attract debris.

And I agree with the above that lockbar and detent tension matter:
I lighten the lockbar tension on all my knives and I put tiny drop of oil on a pin and touch the pin to the detent balls. Open close a few times and this let's the detent ball polish the track that it rides on the blade. This gets rid of any squeak, grit, and drag.

To lighten the tension, if you're so inclined, just take the blade out and remove the scale on the lockbar side. Bend the lockbar back until your get it where you like it. I like it where it bends back and stops a literal hair from touching the detent on the other scale, just enough to see light through. This removes lockbar stick and I've never had any issues with failure to stay locked under any condition.

If you bend it too far just disassemble and bend it back and try again. Detent tension is usually OK and I've only had to adjust a couple to help blade centering.

I've done this to over 20 knives over the years. Now I do all the above the day an Emerson lands in my pocket.

 

[Lapedog]

Just put a square of sandpaper down on the table, throw the washer on top, and use your index finger on top of the washer to swirl it around. Same with the sanding pad.

I sand them down until no gloss/shine is visible. This always smooths my knives out. I reassemble with a light wipe of motor oil, or sometimes dry depending on what I'm using the knife for as dry won't attract debris.

And I agree with the above that lockbar and detent tension matter:
I lighten the lockbar tension on all my knives and I put tiny drop of oil on a pin and touch the pin to the detent balls. Open close a few times and this let's the detent ball polish the track that it rides on the blade. This gets rid of any squeak, grit, and drag.

To lighten the tension, if you're so inclined, just take the blade out and remove the scale on the lockbar side. Bend the lockbar back until your get it where you like it. I like it where it bends back and stops a literal hair from touching the detent on the other scale, just enough to see light through. This removes lockbar stick and I've never had any issues with failure to stay locked under any condition.

If you bend it too far just disassemble and bend it back and try again. Detent tension is usually OK and I've only had to adjust a couple to help blade centering.

I've done this to over 20 knives over the years. Now I do all the above the day an Emerson lands in my pocket.

I know how to sand something. I just didn’t know you could sand plastic like that.

 

[mt666tm]

Lol I wasn't saying you didn't. I just wanted to be clear on what I did so not to leave any possible questions unanswered.

 

[Mikel_24]

...Just put a square of sandpaper down on the table, throw the washer on top, and use your index finger on top of the washer to swirl it around. Same with the sanding pad....

...I know how to sand something...

Worth mentioning that the swirls are better done in an 8 figure pattern. It insures a more uniform sanding pattern and symetric material removal.

Mikel

 

[John_0917]

The bearings in the Sheepdog do work very well when clean but can get gritty/slow when not. I've had it get so bad that the knife wouldn't flip open at all, by contrast when they're clean it's an awesome flipper. I wonder if there is a way that bearings can be somehow shielded from dirt and dust fouling them? If you look at the Sheepdog pivot you can literally see the bearings sitting right there.

 

[mt666tm]

^ You'd need to have sealed bearings to make that happen, which I'm surprised nobody is doing. Like bearings from an RC car:

 

[Mikel_24]

That is a totally different bearing meant for radial forces. Folding knife are meant for axial forces.

 

[mt666tm]

True, but in a folding knife I'll bet it would work just fine. What forces are people applying to their folding knives that a bearing like the one above couldn't handle?

Regardless, if you want to keep dust and debris out, you need a sealed bearing. Perhaps there is one developed for axial forces. If not then there is a potential challenge for someone in the industry.

 

[jceckrosh]

Just put a square of sandpaper down on the table, throw the washer on top, and use your index finger on top of the washer to swirl it around. Same with the sanding pad.

I sand them down until no gloss/shine is visible. This always smooths my knives out. I reassemble with a light wipe of motor oil, or sometimes dry depending on what I'm using the knife for as dry won't attract debris.

And I agree with the above that lockbar and detent tension matter:
I lighten the lockbar tension on all my knives and I put tiny drop of oil on a pin and touch the pin to the detent balls. Open close a few times and this let's the detent ball polish the track that it rides on the blade. This gets rid of any squeak, grit, and drag.

To lighten the tension, if you're so inclined, just take the blade out and remove the scale on the lockbar side. Bend the lockbar back until your get it where you like it. I like it where it bends back and stops a literal hair from touching the detent on the other scale, just enough to see light through. This removes lockbar stick and I've never had any issues with failure to stay locked under any condition.

I'm going to try sanding the washers on that Super7 i mentioned in the other thread.

And just so I am getting this right, you are bending the lockbar away from center (away from the blade)? You say you like to bend it to where it's a hair from the detent on the other scale(liner), but those two statements seem contradictory. Or I'm not following properly.

 

[Mikel_24]

True, but in a folding knife I'll bet it would work just fine. What forces are people applying to their folding knives that a bearing like the one above couldn't handle?

Regardless, if you want to keep dust and debris out, you need a sealed bearing. Perhaps there is one developed for axial forces. If not then there is a potential challenge for someone in the industry.

I was typing on my phone and I couldn't elaborate. Allow me to explain myself.

The pictured bearing has two races, inner and outher. Balls are caged and sealed in between. The axle is meant to be solidary with the inner race, and the outher race is meant to be solidary with the bearing pocket. Press fit usually. The balls slide and roll between the races.

In the knives, the balls are (caged or not), rolling between the blade and the scales. There are not "races" per se. There is no way to seal that. Wr would end up with a waaaqqy too thick assembly.

In my opinion!

Bearings are trending topic now, but they have their drawbacks.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

Ball bearings in any pocket knife meant to be (key phrase) CARRIED AND USED is laughably asinine, revealing no forsight beyond market trends and dollar signs.

Replacing Nylatron with bearings on "The #1 Hard Use Knife in the World" begs wondering if drugs were involved.

Dollar signs, drugs...
Same thing I guess. They both result in comically horrendous decisions that seem brilliant to anyone under the influence.

 

[mt666tm]

But the XHD Commander. As much as I do not like flippers or bearings and the knife itself is an oxymoron + I agree 110% with everything you have just said ^ ... I ... must ... have!

 

[Jamesh Bond]

But the XHD Commander. As much as I do not like flippers or bearings and the knife itself is an oxymoron + I agree 110% with everything you have just said ^ ... I ... must ... have!

Right?

While I'm not super thrilled with everything, the design and certain "X" factor of these knives trumps any small gripe one could have.

In fact, Emerson is my primary carry. Just somethin about em ...

 

[Officer's Match]

Ball bearings in any pocket knife meant to be (key phrase) CARRIED AND USED is laughably asinine, revealing no forsight beyond market trends and dollar signs.

Replacing Nylatron with bearings on "The #1 Hard Use Knife in the World" begs wondering if drugs were involved.

Dollar signs, drugs...
Same thing I guess. They both result in comically horrendous decisions that seem brilliant to anyone under the influence.

I have no problem offering a real Emerson for someone intending strictly indoor use for example. Their bearing flipper models are extremely well done.