O-1 for Bowie?

blgoode said:
I have always thought this one was nice.
Right.jpg
Click to expand...

Nice wood, Brian. I love Koa. :)
 
Dan Gray said:
Jeff
O1 :thumbup: :D
you can always electro etch the hamon on later :foot: :D :D

most my Bowies have been O1 , you've seen them here.
Click to expand...

Yeah I hear ya, Dan. I was thinking of painting one on. Aw heck with it I'll just paint it to look like damascus! :D
 
Some questions came to mind while reading this topic.

After Kevin's big thread on soak times, one of the main messages I got was that you need to soak steels like O-1 long enough to dissolve the carbides and get the alloying elements into solution. (I have an unfortunate knack for totally misunderstanding things, so if I've got this wrong please correct me.) If you're just quickly heating the edge, you haven't gained anything worthwhile over the simpler steels. And in fact, you've only handicapped yourself with this material since it doesn't readily form the very aesthetic structures you're after.

If you have a big pile of O-1 laying around and want to experiment with different ideas, I can certainly see the allure. But why would you specifically choose a steel that will gain you nothing from either a performance or aesthetic standpoint? Not trying to rain on the parade here; I was kinda wondering if there's just something obvious I'm missing.
 
Just because he wants a Hamon doesnt mean he will need to just torch heat the blade. He can still soak as long as he wants since the hamon is dependant on the different cooling rates between spine and edge rather than a product of the heating and soaking process as far as I know. Using a torch simply does the job for you since the spine never gets to critical. The hamon is formed in that case as a byproduct of uneven heating between edge and spine. In all other cases, a proper soak gets the spine to full heat and the hamon is caused by the cooling process either as a side effect of a thicker, slower cooling spine or by clay working as a heat sink/resist during quenching to cause the spine to even more slowly cool in relation to the edge.

That may be oversimplifying, but its how I understand what happens....someone can correct me if necessary.
 
if you OA the edge of O1 for at least 5 min's you'll be close to where you want to be,,a bit more would be better..yes and regardless you still have advantages with O1 but at least 5 min's I want 7 at least but the steel will show me when it's time..
also food for thought (no clay)
for a hamon you have many way to do it. not all hamons will be the same
differential tempering ( full quench, full temper, then drawing the spine back
while water tubing the edge)
differential quenching ( with edge quench full blade heat or just the edge then temper)
edge quenching with the edge at temp
edge quenching with a full blade heat

in differential tempering you'll have less of a defined hamon on a full heated blade (no clay) and then edge quench.
just 2 cent to think on..
 
the possum said:
...one of the main messages I got was that you need to soak steels like O-1 long enough to dissolve the carbides and get the alloying elements into solution. (I have an unfortunate knack for totally misunderstanding things, so if I've got this wrong please correct me.) ...
Click to expand...

You did ask;) ... alloying elements take a lot more to move around, and if they are nicely dispersed it may be best to leave them where they are at. It is the carbon that they hold onto that you want to free up and get into solution. Since we saw that even after the longest soaks O1 will maintain some of these carbides, we should perhaps aim towards getting just enough carbon into solution to obtain maximum hardness and leave the rest for those indestructable carbides.
 
Ah, thanks for correcting me, Kevin. I should have double checked the thread before posting.

I understand what you guys are saying about how to do it, and the various methods to get there, but I thought O-1 presented some complications. How do you hold the edge at temp for 5 or 7 minutes (or more) without heating up the spine above critical? How do you quench the edge without letting the spine drop below MS for 7 or 8 seconds? I'm sure you could rig up a way to do it if you really wanted to experiment enough to make it work, but it didn't sound like that's the direction things were going. I can agree that hardening the whole blade and drawing the spine back would be a way to achieve the hard edge/soft spine- if you didn't want a bold hamon. But if he does want that bold hamon, how do you soak just the edge long enough to get the worthwhile benefits from O-1?

Also, I recall those infamous threads where the Mad Dog blade had its whole hardened edge cracked off at the transition line. So besides the difficulties above, I'd want any hamon accomplished to have some big undulations. A dovetailed joint is stronger than just glueing two flat pieces of wood together...
 
the possum said:
Ah, thanks for correcting me, Kevin. I should have double checked the thread before posting.

I understand what you guys are saying about how to do it, and the various methods to get there, but I thought O-1 presented some complications. How do you hold the edge at temp for 5 or 7 minutes (or more) without heating up the spine above critical? How do you quench the edge without letting the spine drop below MS for 7 or 8 seconds? I'm sure you could rig up a way to do it if you really wanted to experiment enough to make it work, but it didn't sound like that's the direction things were going. I can agree that hardening the whole blade and drawing the spine back would be a way to achieve the hard edge/soft spine- if you didn't want a bold hamon. But if he does want that bold hamon, how do you soak just the edge long enough to get the worthwhile benefits from O-1?

Also, I recall those infamous threads where the Mad Dog blade had its whole hardened edge cracked off at the transition line. So besides the difficulties above, I'd want any hamon accomplished to have some big undulations. A dovetailed joint is stronger than just glueing two flat pieces of wood together...
Click to expand...

ahhhh the price of a nice hamon
it's been mentioned many times here, it's the look that is sought after, strength is another matter..

it's easy to keep the spine from over heating with O/A
because of the thinner edge and a littler feathering it wants the heat.

this way is not for everyone for sure and after some time now on the forums I'm wondering if everyone can do it..do it well anyway.:) just my 2 cents
 
Its touchy with a torch thats for sure. Patience and repition is important. You can ALWAYS get it hotter...........but getting it too hot too fast you cant undo. I let my blades soak for about 4 to 5 min I'd guess. I repeat this process 3 times and I can tell that there is a big difference when repeating the torch heat treat, for me any way. MAke sure that you test the edge and see thats its gotten hard enough. I fear that many guys not having good luck with the toarch are never getting the blades hard enough to start with.
 
blgoode said:
I let my blades soak for about 4 to 5 min I'd guess. I repeat this process 3 times and I can tell that there is a big difference when repeating the torch heat treat, for me any way.
Click to expand...
Brian
the reason for that is hardened steel heats faster than soft steel does of the same breed
so you'll get to that magic point faster too the next time around.

try cutting hardened steel with your cutting set up then soft steel you'll see what I mean. I feel I hit the right spot the first time around so I do it just the once..;) :)

BUT that's just me you know :D
 
One of the best heat treats I did was just once.........I like to be sure though....I tend to obsess:thumbup: ;)
 
I never have, nor will I ever HT a blade using a torch. I have nothing against the guys who do, because they have done enough to get their process correct. I'd like to clarify that I didn't say quench line, temper line, torch line, or torch heat. I asked about a HAMON, an honest to goodness clay hamon. I believe the other methods of getting some form of pattern in a blade are better suited for smaller blades. I think any blade that is 2" wide and 8 or more inches long should have a real hamon.

FWIW, I guess I'll stick with the 1095. :p
 
I never have, nor will I ever HT a blade using a torch
Click to expand...
wow that's to bad to not have that under your belt just to say you can(;)

you know you can take a car spring , an O/A set up, a hammer and a piece of RR iron and make a very nice working knife..

no ovens no grinders no files, mills or drills, sand paper,
you have all the heat you need, you can make your own tools, punches, rasps,
tongs and much more.. I don't where I'm going with this :D

what I wrote was food for thought at the expense of hijacking the thread just a little for info to the readers..

yes the 10xx steels
here you go
http://people.howstuffworks.com/sword-making.htm/printable

http://p222.ezboard.com/fprimalfiresfrm19.showMessage?topicID=605.topic

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353661
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top