O.T. Getting set to buy our new car and need some advice.

Yvsa

Yvsa

Joined
May 18, 1999
Messages
15,395
Well guys Barb and I have finally settled on the new Camry we've decided to buy if we can get it for a good price.:D
It's the SE Sport model and the MSRP on it is $24,710.00 and I need to know what a good deal is on it?
One dealership has offered me the car for $22,860.00 but that still seems kind of high too me.:grumpy:
Another dealer has told us they can beat the pants off the first dealer.:rolleyes:
I know how devious the bastards can be as my old man was in new and used car sales for many years and I've heard some of their schemes although they're probably outdated by now............
I've visited all the car buying websites and the best I can figure the invoice on it should be around $21,500.00 or so as well as getting several tips on what too watch for by less than honest dealers.:mad:

Should I go for the invoice price or should I try to get it cheaper?
And if I'm all wrong about paying invoice or less how much over invoice should I pay?
This will be only the 2nd brand new car I have bought in my life and I'm at a loss here.:confused:

What's y'alls best advise for me in buying a brand new car?
Besides forgetting it and buying a used one with low milage on it.:rolleyes: :p

The reason I want the 2005 Camry is that it comes with their 5 speed automatic compared to the 4 speed in previous years.
The 5 speed has a good rep while there have been a few problems with the 4 speed I understand.:(
 
Hi Yvsa ... I mostly lurk here because of my limited knowledge, but this I know something about. I sold cars for 7 years in this area. It can't hurt to offer them invoice - you can always go up when negotiating, but its hard to go down. If you can buy the car for $400 - 500 over invoice, you got a great deal. The only problem is that Camrys are a much in demand car and they get premium price for them. I live in a rather depressed area and they still get $1000 or so over invoice. I didn't sell Toyotas, but I can tell you that when the new VW Beetle came out, dealers were getting STICKER price plus all the other crap they could add on. Sold lots of them that way. One thing to check on those car websites is to see if the dealers in your area are getting hidden incentives from the manufacturer, and if so, figure that into your bid. Good luck. For what its worth, I hate buying cars as much as you do, and I know the salesmen! :D
 
I bought a car from carsdirect.com some years ago. I don't know how well they work now, but back then you'd promise to pay them, but a local dealer would wind up consummating the deal. By that, I mean that you'd pick up the car from them and hand them a check. And they'd get annoyed because you were there a few days ago and didn't meet your price.

I was quite satisfied, but don't know if they've been totally changed since the dot-com meltdown. But it's worth a look.
 
I just bought a new car last March -- in a military area, no less. These guys are profiteering asshats to put it mildly.

Some dealers will try to rob you more than others. All dealers will rob you given half a chance. The local maggots tried to charge me more than MSRP. (VW Jetta TDI -- they told me that the diesels were hot sellers, even though there were three on the lot at the time.) They also didn't want to give me the options or color I wanted.

I went ahead and requested prices from all the other dealerships within 60 miles via email, telling them exactly what I wanted. (Model, interior color, exterior color, options, etc.) Several of them -- all a good distance away -- offered me invoice + $500 -- a fair price for a car, especially in this part of the country. I didn't want to drive that far; also, it would be the local dealership that tried to rob me who'd be doing any warranty repairs and I wanted to be on good terms with them. I called them and told them I'd be showing them a printup of the offer. It wasn't necessary...they matched it over the phone. I mentioned that the other dealership was offering a VW ball cap. They countered with mud flaps. A deal is a deal and I bought the car from them. (After harassing their manager for trying to rob me, that is. He's a good guy but business is business.)

The internet is your friend, not theirs. It puts every dealer in the world at your fingertips and gives you bargaining power that wasn't imaginable even a decade ago. Use it. Find the best price within the farthest distance that you're willing to drive, get it sent to you, print it up, and confront your local dealership with it. Invoice + $500 is what you should be aiming for. Some will do better, some will do worse, but this (in my eyes) is a fair price to pay for a vehicle. Remember, dealerships get the cars for less than "cost", but they do have to make a profit. Invoice + $500 is fair to everyone. If they don't want to deal, they don't want your business. Go someplace else. Even if my local dealership hadn't played ball, the farthest one away that was offering a good price was less than an hour's drive. I'm willing to drive an hour for $1000+.

Finally: even though the local dealership originally didn't have the car I wanted, they mysteriously "found" it when I told them about the competing dealership's price. The salesman later came clean and told me that they'd done a trade with a dealership in Oregon to get it; the odometer confirmed this. They want your business and will work hard to get it if you push them. Don't think of it as screwing the dealership -- think of it as good business. Trust me, it's just business and they don't take it personally. They do the same to others far more often than they have it done to them.

On a plus side, the TDI's really took off right after I bought mine. VW can't keep them on the lots, now that the word's gotten out. I'm glad I got mine when I did -- I hear about folks paying $2k over invoice and being happy about it nowadays.

BTW...is a manual transmission that bad? This is my first manual and I love it. Better mileage, better power, less money, and a good clutch lasts about as long as an automatic transmission does, let alone the rest of the manual transmission. I don't believe I'll be going back to automatics. (Or gassers, for that matter. Diesel power is the only power.)

Good luck on your purchase. It took me 27 years to buy my first and only new car. I believe the wait (and work to get there) was worth it.
 
It is possible to buy a new vehicle for about 500 bucks more than the dealer paid the factory. That was the price ten years ago- it may have gone up with inflation.
You find out what the actual dealer cost is, Edmunds or some other source, and make your offer.

There are often auto brokers in an urban area and they will get you the new car or truck for only a little more than you could negotiate on your own, maybe a couple hundred. I ordered one from the factory doing this. That way I got exactly what I wanted. Took about a month.


munk
 
Having bought or negotiated for four new cars (kids in college) in the last few years including two Toyotas, I can speak from a little experience on the frustrating art of negotiating price on a new car. I have the advantage in this area (L.A.) of having the highest volume Toyota dealer in the U.S., and I've been able to get $200 over invoice or less pretty consistently. Even at invoice price the dealer gets a kickback from the factory for every car sold so they would still make a profit, despite what they would have you believe. The trick is trying to limit the add-ons that dealers like to throw in for their profit, like door edge protectors, Simonize treatment, floor mats, anti-rust treatment. I've found that the Simonize or anti-rust treatment charges they pretty much throw out during negotiations. I think the real key really is finding the dealer that does high volume and is willing to limit their profit - I went to one dealer just 90 miles from here that wanted four hundred dollars over sticker price, citing the high demand for that particular Toyota model - I was able to get the same model for thousands less at another dealer the following day.
 
To add to what Wesley said:

After I'd negotiated the deal, they introduce me to some lady who tells me about the three extended service options I have. She phrases them in such a way that I must make a choice. The cheapest was $500. The most expensive ran into the thousands. I looked at the cheapest. It offered an underbody coating to protect against rust and a roadside service plan. I looked back at my owner's manual. It offered a 12-year warranty on the car body rusting through (primarily due to their excellent underbody coating, they said)...and a roadside service plan.

WTF?

"But I don't have to buy any of these, do I?" I asked.
"Well...no..." she said, somewhat taken aback. "But they will help."
"You want to charge me several hundred to several thousand dollars for things that the manufacturer already gives me for the price of the car," I said. "How, exactly, are you helping me again?"

She didn't have a satisfactory answer. I passed. I have not regretted it.

Wesley is 100% on the money with this. They rake you over the coals on the dealer-installed options. The scam is that you just dropped x amount of money for the car, what's a few hundred more dollars? Watch this extremely carefully.
 
"After I'd negotiated the deal, they introduce me to some lady who tells me about the three extended service options"

This would likely be the 'Sales Manager'. You will also be offered 'insurance' to buy (loan, loss of employment, disability, etc...). This will quickly add several hundred dollars to the sales price and would probably not be a good buy without a specific reason. Like 'uhmmm, you have a job that may not last because of the economy or maybe fickle seasonal work?

In short, decline these items. Also READ the final sales contract, LINE for LINE to make sure they are not accidentally added back in :mad:

Enjoy your new car Yvsa :)
 
Wesley Hoenshel said:
The trick is trying to limit the add-ons that dealers like to throw in for their profit, like door edge protectors, Simonize treatment, floor mats, anti-rust treatment. I've found that the Simonize or anti-rust treatment charges they pretty much throw out during negotiations.
Click to expand...
Thanks guys!!!!:D :cool: :D Lots of great help for this ol' dumb ndn.;)
I realize these options are sold at an inflated price and I'm not opting for any rust treatment but the Simonize, Prevarin window etching, door edge guards, etc are just easier for me to buy from the dealer already installed even if it costs me a couple hundred or a little more.
I thought about getting the car and then taking it too a detail shop for the fabric guard and wax treatment but it's just more hassle than I would like to go through.:grumpy:
One of the prices you pay when you're not always able to do things by or for yourself anymore.:(
The prices I got reflected the cost of the options both Invoice and MSRP so I'm still hoping to get a pretty good deal.

Is it still possible by doing it this way or should I just bite the dayumed bullet and tough it through the detail shop and an aftermarket dealer for floormats and such?:confused:
I may have to rethink my options, but I'm hoping I can take the easy way out and still not pay too much.
I'm not only older and decrepit; I'm also lazy as hell too.:rolleyes: ;)

I guess no one likes buying a new car!!!!:grumpy:
 
A couple years ago my wife bought a new VW Golf TDI. I spent days doing research on the internet and got all these different deal offers. I hate buying cars and wheeling and dealing. It made me crazy.

Finally went to the VW dealer down the street. Of course they didn't have the model we wanted, we had to upgrade to one with all the luxuries. What is that stupid "Moon Roof" all about anyway. Why would anyone want a hole in my car roof? Well, now we have one. And the mirrors with the built in defrosters? Gimmie a break. We got them too.

The price was about the same as everyone else offered and we got a loan with no interest. The actual purchase went pretty smoothly. When it was over I straightened up, pulled up my pants, rubbed my sore butt (I should have taken Vaseline with me), and drove the car home. I never looked at any prices again as I really don't want to know how badly I got screwed.

Got a few extra bucks the next year and paid off the balance. If the VW lasts as long as her 1990 GEO Metro that it replaced, we will be really happy.

When my Jeep Cherokee caught fire in 1995, I bought a new 4WD Chevy pickup. That was the first "New" car I bought since my Dodge Lancer back in 1964. I have only put 40K miles on the pickup so we should be in good shape for the rest of our lives as far as vehicles go, as long as nobody steals them or we don't get in a wreck.
 
Bill: you're probably right.

Ben: I had a similar problem. I wanted a 5-speed GL...no frills, no automatic, just something to get me around economically. Even the baseline po' boy GL has heated mirrors. (Since the dew started turning to frost last week, I've actually found these useful.) They really wanted to hammer a GLS w/ cold weather package down my throat -- heated seats, moonroof, etc. I figured for the few thousand dollars I'd save while not getting it I could cover my seat with heat wraps, buy a pair of goggles and just stick my head out the window. :)

Now, what's up with this $2.30 diesel? :barf:
 
Ben Arown-Awile said:
A couple years ago my wife bought a new VW Golf TDI.

I spent days doing research on the internet and got all these different deal offers.

I hate buying cars and wheeling and dealing. It made me crazy.
Click to expand...
I've also spent several days researching different vehicles as well and it has made me more crazy than I normally am, but that doesn't take much anyway.:rolleyes: ;)
But I believe it's paid off in helping me too get a lower price as well as getting exactly what we want, so I feel it's been time well spent even if it has been stressful.
The one dealer we will probably go with has decided that they're going to have to order the car, that is if indeed one isn't available at another dealer equipped like we want it.
The Toyota Website, as well as their own, says there is an exact match 2 days away but we'll see.:rolleyes:
We're willing to wait the 2 to 3 weeks it takes to get a new car in from the factory in order to get exactly what we want.:D

I hate buying anything that's going to cost us much over $500.00, anything under that I just check the sale ads for a couple of weekends and then go ahead and buy the damned thing whatever it may be.:grumpy:
We may wind up getting screwed a bit but by damn I'm gonna make 'em kiss us and make them make us like it If/when we do get screwed!!!!:D

But parts of the process has been a little bit fun, Like refusing to go into the showroom/office when we went for a test drive one day.
Another time when they took Barb's keys so they could drive the ol' Dodge when I thought we might go ahead and trade it in, since have got it sold, and we left without them, the keys, not even thinking about the trap that they had set up failing until I thought about it later.
Then the other time when they tried to switch sales personel on us and we left.:D
All of the above are ploys trying to put pressure on a person to buy their car that day according to the Internet car buying tips and so far we have foiled them all.:D
But when we go in to actually buy the car I'm not going to be inclined to play anymore games.
Getting up and walking out is always an option and one they're not likely to let happen. It's good, as well as nice, when you're not in any hurry to purchase.:D

I wish the carsdirect.com was available in our area but our zip code doesn't have any local carsdirect.com dealers.
I thought about driving to Irving Texas in order to get a better deal and will do that if they don't want too deal with me locally; not ruling out any options until it''s a done deal.
I got a fairly decent quote from a dealer there but it wasn't on the exact car we want.
I may be totally Certifiable when this is all over!!!!:D
 
Whatever you get, make sure that the springs are appropriate for making into Khuk's later on.

Be very insistent and sincere when you ask the salesman about this.
 
my wife was the secretery for a ford dealership in clare south australia so knows the tricks the dealers use.

A= DO NOT LET THEM CHARGE YOU DEALER DELIVERY this is just an add on for them pure profit.

B= SHE SUGGESTS YOU MAIL THE DEALERSHIPS WITH THE CAR YOU WANT.
stateing the model you want,letting them know you will be excepting the best offer put forward, by a certain date, then sit back and wait for the offers to come in.
once you recieve them you then ring the best offers, and play them off against each other giving them a further chance to better there offers.this way you should get the best deal avaialble. as most dealers reckon some profit is better than no profit. :) good luck yvsa its a hard proccess but worth it as you will save heaps.
C= REMEMBER YOU WANT THE BASIC COST NO ADD ON EXTRAS.
as this is where they try to make up there profits. you are much better of getting your extras after,by the same process shopping around dealers to get the best price. regards ken :)
 
KRAKEN said:
..DO NOT LET THEM CHARGE YOU DEALER DELIVERY this is just an add on for them pure profit...
Click to expand...
They charged me $120.00 for "Advertising Charge". I knew it was a rip-off but I was too burned out by that time to fight. I got them back by taking the car in about a half dozen times for warrantee repair of an imaginary squeal in the brakes. Drove them crazy, and each time I got a free car wash and all the coffee and donuts I could eat.
 
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