O.T. I really need to work on forgiveness

ferguson

ferguson

Joined
Feb 21, 2001
Messages
4,238
Iraqis drag US corpses through streets

I really want to be like Uncle Bill and be peaceful and forgiving.

I try to put myself in their shoes. What would I do if the US was invaded?

But what I REALLY want to do is exact revenge. I'm sorry. I'm ashamed. But that's what I want. Fallujah would never be inhabited again. Poison the ground so nothing would ever grow again. Ever.

The rage and hatred inside me is an ugly human thing. Only humans are cruel. Only humans kill for greed or religion....or revenge. Forgive me.

Steve
 
Yeah?

The last thing I did on campus today was to do some yoga and meditation with my Buddhist students group.

Was listening to the story on NPR on the drive home, and I thought, had I been there, and seen this...those poor burned bodies wouldn't have been the only ones hitting the ground. Whether they were armed or not, I swear I would have burned that cheering crowd down until I ran out of bullets or targets.

Forgiveness can only come from God, if you believe in him. Me? I'd give 'em hot lead. :mad:

John
 
Steve, I wasn't too happy to see that either. I watched the footage on Yahoo this morning and had some thoughts of which I am not proud.
--Josh
 
Only humans are cruel.
Click to expand...

Actually, this isn't true. There are clear cases of documented cruelty in higher animals, such as apes. Dunno if that's a comforting thought, or not, but at least we're not alone. :rolleyes:
 
Only the dead have seen an end to war. - Plato

Ok, we invaded, obstensibly to protect the USA from WMD's.

So, where are the WMD's and how much longer are our people going to have to die in this mess?

Those guerillas couldn't operate like that unless the local population was backing them. The only way to effectively stop a guerilla war like that, especially when fighting Muslims, this is to be massively, uncommonly, inhumanly brutal.

Is the USA willing to do that? Would it be worth it? If not, they need to start thinking about packing up right now because 'hearts and minds' and handing out candy bars will not get you anywhere but dead in the long run.
 
Haven't seen it and probably don't want to from what I read.:( You're understood Steve and I don't think forgiveness is needed. Hell, some people just need killin and I'm still a warrior in heart and mind and spirit if not in body, but I'd still kill all I could and be happy about it if I were there, able or not. Some people just need killin, been true since the beginning of time and will remain true to the end of time.:( :grumpy:
We need men like Bill to remind us of who and what we are, not all men are warriors, nor do they need to be.
If not for men like Bill we would all be animals instead of warriors.
 
mrostov said:
Only the dead have seen an end to war. - Plato

Those guerillas couldn't operate like that unless the local population was backing them. The only way to effectively stop a guerilla war like that, especially when fighting Muslims, this is to be massively, uncommonly, inhumanly brutal.

Is the USA willing to do that? Would it be worth it? If not, they need to start thinking about packing up right now because 'hearts and minds' and handing out candy bars will not get you anywhere but dead in the long run.
Click to expand...

Us? Probably not. The Shia? You bet. The Kurds? Absolutely! After decades of being crushed under the boot of the Suni clans, leaving the Shia and Kurds armed as we leave would be payback.
 
Seems like we had a little incident like this in Somalia once upon a time, and really never left them anything to remember us by. I was watching "The O'Reilly Factor"just now. He had two of their military commentators on, the white bearded retired Colonel, and a retired General. One wanted to go in with 1,000 Iraqi police, to help sort the population out, and the other wanted to simply erase the town from the map without the sorting out. The latter is against our grain, but these are not the people who lived under Saddams boot for 30 years. These are the people who polished and kissed his boots, and helped keep them on the necks of all the rest of the country. It was mentioned that over 85% of Iraq is working to rebuild, and would give no sympathy to the holdouts of Fallujah. A solid perimeter and a few loads of napalm would solve most of the problems in that immediate area, and send a signal to those in Mosul, who also started dancing in the streets over their "fresh kills" today.
 
Yep. Maybe I'm just old and cranky (maybe, hell), but forgiveness is more easily bestowed on crispy critters than on smiling cut-throats, or their get.
 
I read this story once about these people who adoped a racing greyhound. Then they had to put it down because it started stalking and killing peoples cats around the neighborhood. The point of the story was all it's life it had been in a cage or chasing a wooden rabbit that it never caught around a track. Suddenly when it ate the first cat it got not wood but blood. After all those years so controlled it couldn't get enough of it's new found freedom.

Anybody with any sense could see this whole thing coming. I don't mean this particular incident, but the whole psychology of what was going to happen. I think for some reason they thought everybody would be welcoming us. But what about the 10 years we starved them with sanctions? I'm not saying the sanctions were or were not warranted, but that had to engender some hostility there. Then we come in there and replace a dictator with martial law. But the martial law just kills a lot of civilians accidentally but doesn't really protect the average Joe from street crime.

The whole place is a mess. What they really need is a good civil war to sort it all out. With no other country messing with it. But the chance of another Afghanistan with the terrorists setting up camp is too real to let that happen.

I don't think we should have gone there. But I don't think we can pull out. Maybe eventually we'll have to when 10 years have gone by and we're getting nowhere like in Vietnam.

But it's like we reached in a box and there was a rattlesnake in there and we got it by the neck. But we have to let it go to get our hand out of the box. And if we do we'll get bit.
 
I remember after 9-11 a poster called the, "Minuteman" was on the political forums in another place. He advised the cancer was terminal and we needed to adminster radiation treatment immediately, several kilotons of it to the affected areas.

I read the small towns in Germany were not treated so kindly when the Allies occupied them. Sabotage (sic) was dealt with harshly and instantly.

................

The thing that really gets me is these were civilians.




munk
 
It is the Easter season, I've seen The Passion of the Christ, and I'm trying real hard to not hate. But I think I'm losing the battle.

My sig line reminds me of what I have to work on every day. I am close to losing it.
 
I may not know too much about politics, war, and the Real reasons for this conflict, but I truly know that to respect the basic rights of others is the way to peace, Real peace.
 
As I said before, I've never served nor my brother but both our parents and my father in laws have (one KIA) so we come from a fairly military background.....I feel for the guys that are there, earning their pay....crappy way to have to do it though.

Follow me on this before you get mad.....I can see them hanging the civilian bodies as a warning...a threat....it makes sense. If we were invaded, I'm sure we'd send a signal to those attacking. But to do that to soldiers....that's no way to die as a solider....hung up like a piece of meat. :mad:

It would be nice to say.....no women, no civilians nor children.....soldiers vs soldiers but that would be too neat and clean. They are going to use everything they can to take a shot....the question is "do we answer in kind". How to Fight with Honor....that's a good question....one on one I think it's possible....to fight on a mass scale....I say whatever it takes to defeat the enemy...then ask for forgiveness
 
Follow me on this before you get mad.....I can see them hanging the civilian bodies as a warning...a threat....it makes sense. If we were invaded, I'm sure we'd send a signal to those attacking. But to do that to soldiers....that's no way to die as a solider....hung up like a piece of meat. >>> Fenryr

Sorry, Fenryr, this makes no sense to me.

If 'we' were invaded, it wouldn't be because we'd threatened the stability of the world, raped tens of thousands of women, killed and tortured tens of thousands of people, and held the region hostage to a form of WMD blackmail. 'We' wouldn't mutilate civilians.

munk
 
Maybe we could try to understand their anger and send Chuckie Schumer,Chapaquidik Boy,and Hillary over as emissaries of peace and love. :barf:
 
folks get hurt.

We coud go in and do what the Brits did in Naseria...Kill every male 18 and over.

Sure quieted that place down.


You won't read about it in the news, gatekeepers have seen to that. My source is form the 1st Mar. Exp. Lotsa dark and freaky things going on over there.

Anybody heard how the American Muslim population feels about all this, or have they bolted fer the hole?

How bout pig's blood sprayed from cropdusters over the whole place? (Hey-Psy ops ain't above using local customs and beliefs against them)

On the topic of forgiveness--Same book says eye fer an eye. Even endorses vengeance in a few places.

If in a religion you have the premise of righteous vengeance, or holy war, then suddenly all the dispossessed and unfit folk have a ticket to paradise. I guess if I were a poor, off-caste (out-caste?:D) Musilim in Iraq with little to lose, a righteous death (whatever that is) as a way into paradise might seem attractive.

Until religious myths of holy wars are de-emphasized (which has been, oh, NEVER in the history of Islaam) then this will continue. In the 1600's the European powers met and agreed that religion would never again be used by them as a motivating factor for war. Europe had its fill of righteous holy war stuff, and it just left the place lookin like -- Iraq.

Keith
 
Ferrous Wheel said:
Until religious myths of holy wars are de-emphasized (which has been, oh, NEVER in the history of Islaam) then this will continue. Keith
Click to expand...

That has never been a more true statement. In Islam you have the Jihad. In Hinduisism you have the Mahabarata.

So when the Islamic radicals in Cashmir killed those Hindus on the train a while back the army didn't lock down the place. The Hindu population went on a rampage killing like 800 people (civilians) and burning their houses. Many saw it as a replay of the Ramanaya.

All religions have committed atrocities over time. What concerns me is that it seems like with Islam that there seems to be a significant minority that is committed to changing the world by violence and the voices in the peaceful, law abiding majority of Muslims are either not condemning them or their condemnation is not being widely herd. I mean look how many branches of Christianity, even those against abortion speak out against the abortion clinic bombings. On the other hand when Khomeni issued the death order on Salmon Rushdie all the Muslims I know personally supported Khomeni. Supported a death sentence for someone just for his words! :( :confused: Even Cat Stevens supported him! The guy who before his conversion wrote Peace Train!

I don't think military force is the answer. I mean it has to be part of the short term. But I think the only way this stuff is gonna stop is if more moderate voices in the Muslim community start condemning this stuff, and clerics start saying it is against the Koran.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top