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O.T. Speech for the man who would be President!
- Thread starter Yvsa
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No. Some things transcend ideology. 
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which by default puts me in agreement with munk. 
What is up with Tuesdays?
Keith
P.S. A nation that wants to help others must first help itself. Only by better understanding ones own probs and helping one's self, can one hope to be fit and able to help another.
What is up with Tuesdays?
Keith
P.S. A nation that wants to help others must first help itself. Only by better understanding ones own probs and helping one's self, can one hope to be fit and able to help another.
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- Sep 22, 2003
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Well lets all party then
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"Thor," a driver who quit KBR and got his nickname for using a hammer to fight off a knife-wielding Iraqi who tried to climb into the cab of his truck, said his doctor recently told him he might lose the use of his right eye after a December attack. Iraqis shattered his windshield with machine gunfire and bullets whizzed by his ear. Glass got in his eye, and he broke two bones in his shoulder, he said.
If he loses that right eye, they can call him Odin, too! Seriously tho...interesting anecdote and good nickname.
Keith
If he loses that right eye, they can call him Odin, too!
Seriously tho...interesting anecdote and good nickname.Keith
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They interviewed him on NPR this morning. He sounded like an old country boy. Seriously they didn't have weapons? Sounds like some of those Blackwater guys should have been riding with them.
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that they were killed while hauling 'sailboat fuel'?
On a related topic:
http://dcheney.blogspot.com/
looks like Cheney was a baaad monkey! (I mean, it looks like a pro-democrat or anti-repub pg, but the truck driver incident and others linking Cheney to his old co (Haliburton) is par for the course for an investigation...)
Keith
On a related topic:
http://dcheney.blogspot.com/
looks like Cheney was a baaad monkey! (I mean, it looks like a pro-democrat or anti-repub pg, but the truck driver incident and others linking Cheney to his old co (Haliburton) is par for the course for an investigation...)
Keith
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- May 18, 1999
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- 15,395
Maybe if I had posted this in the political forum I might have gotten some of the reactions I truly expected.
Y'all surprised me and yet you didn't.
The world we live in is woven with many mysterious and interacting webs and the truth is that we all need one another. No one country can be an isolationist if they want to survive with modern technology let alone other important issues.
The things in the speech I would like to see done are things I would like to see done for the world and not just the US.
What's scary for me is the amount of people I know that would vote for such a man, or woman, if they could honestly make such a speech that I'm afraid that just such a person would be elected!
So many people I know are wrapped up so deeply in their own agenda's they can't/won't think straight and there is no talking to them as they're so convinced in their view's they are no longer rational human beings.
I don't know what it is about politics that makes people that way but it's always been that way it seems.
To them the abortion, gay right's, social healthcare, and other issues to numerous to name are more important than the overall good of the people and personal freedoms potentially lost. Personally my mind can be changed on some issues if it's a legitimate and logical paradigm put forth in a polite and unheated discussion.
But my personal view is the more freedom and less laws the better, live and let live, and you have the right to swing your fist anywhere you want but that right stops at the end of my nose.
But the most important thing is that no matter what your political leanings are it's so very important that you get out and register to vote and then Vote!
That way when it comes to complaint time you will have a voice.
If you don't Vote you have no right to complain.
[Firken=QUOTE]BTW, I see no difference so far in this respect between the two popular presidential candidates.[/QUOTE]I agree. AFAIC there hasn't been anyone decent enough to vote for with either party for a good many years.
It comes down to the lessor of two weasels, er evils these days.
What has happened to all of our world class leaders?
Do we have any left?
If there any left why won't they run for office? Is there truly a conspiracy?
Are we headed towards a one world government?
I'm afraid the USA is headed the same direction as Ancient Rome when she was also a Republic!
Seems as if they're more questions than answers these days, but that is also probably nothing new. I suppose it's always seemed that way.
Y'all surprised me and yet you didn't.
The world we live in is woven with many mysterious and interacting webs and the truth is that we all need one another. No one country can be an isolationist if they want to survive with modern technology let alone other important issues.
The things in the speech I would like to see done are things I would like to see done for the world and not just the US.
What's scary for me is the amount of people I know that would vote for such a man, or woman, if they could honestly make such a speech that I'm afraid that just such a person would be elected!
So many people I know are wrapped up so deeply in their own agenda's they can't/won't think straight and there is no talking to them as they're so convinced in their view's they are no longer rational human beings.
I don't know what it is about politics that makes people that way but it's always been that way it seems.
To them the abortion, gay right's, social healthcare, and other issues to numerous to name are more important than the overall good of the people and personal freedoms potentially lost. Personally my mind can be changed on some issues if it's a legitimate and logical paradigm put forth in a polite and unheated discussion.
But my personal view is the more freedom and less laws the better, live and let live, and you have the right to swing your fist anywhere you want but that right stops at the end of my nose.
But the most important thing is that no matter what your political leanings are it's so very important that you get out and register to vote and then Vote!
That way when it comes to complaint time you will have a voice.
If you don't Vote you have no right to complain.
[Firken=QUOTE]BTW, I see no difference so far in this respect between the two popular presidential candidates.[/QUOTE]I agree. AFAIC there hasn't been anyone decent enough to vote for with either party for a good many years.
It comes down to the lessor of two weasels, er evils these days.
What has happened to all of our world class leaders?
Do we have any left?
If there any left why won't they run for office? Is there truly a conspiracy?
Are we headed towards a one world government?
I'm afraid the USA is headed the same direction as Ancient Rome when she was also a Republic!
Seems as if they're more questions than answers these days, but that is also probably nothing new. I suppose it's always seemed that way.
I think we can and should adjust our responsibility to guarding and protecting the corners of the world. They hate us in many places and they should take care of themselves. But we cannot withdraw from real situations and real problems.
I'm voting for Bush because he sees that Terror is the challenge for this and the next generation, maybe forever. There is a difference between Bush and Kerry. I'm not going to argue that with strong supporters of Kerry right now. If anyone wants to that's fine. Let this thread go where it will. Anyone is welcome to say, "I disagree with you munk and I'm voting for Kerry."
munk
I'm voting for Bush because he sees that Terror is the challenge for this and the next generation, maybe forever. There is a difference between Bush and Kerry. I'm not going to argue that with strong supporters of Kerry right now. If anyone wants to that's fine. Let this thread go where it will. Anyone is welcome to say, "I disagree with you munk and I'm voting for Kerry."
munk
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I'm voting for Bush as well Munk because I feel he has the guts to carry on and is the lessor of two weasels.munk said:
I probably need to clarify why I see little difference between the two candidates but that is complicated for me.
I have too think too long and hard as too how to put things such as this in words which is why I only lurk in the political forum 99.9999% of the time I do go there.
It's much easier for me to just say, "I agree" or, "I disagree."
I guess it would be easiest if I just say that I think neither of them are really world class leaders and that I don't agree with either's political view's and let it go at that.
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I'm voting for Kerry because:
#1 I think divided government works better than the one party system
#2 I think Bush's handling on the war on terror is not going to well. He started out on the right foot in Afghanistan but then created another Afghanistan in Iraq. Then he didn't send enough troops in or spend enough money to preserve order and is unable to change his course even when confronted with the facts. He's not half the statesman and negotiator his father was.
People keep going on like "flip flopping" is a bad thing, but I think when new facts arise you should be flexible enough to change. I also think that to stop terror you gotta do more than just go over and kill people and blow up stuff. As far as I can see that's the sum total of their policy and it's not working too well far as I can see.
#1 I think divided government works better than the one party system
#2 I think Bush's handling on the war on terror is not going to well. He started out on the right foot in Afghanistan but then created another Afghanistan in Iraq. Then he didn't send enough troops in or spend enough money to preserve order and is unable to change his course even when confronted with the facts. He's not half the statesman and negotiator his father was.
People keep going on like "flip flopping" is a bad thing, but I think when new facts arise you should be flexible enough to change. I also think that to stop terror you gotta do more than just go over and kill people and blow up stuff. As far as I can see that's the sum total of their policy and it's not working too well far as I can see.
I am not going to get into "I am voting for..."
But, I fear that our current government has no respect for the constitution or for personal liberty or freedom. The bill or rights has become a joke. The only freedom that anyone in Washington says that they care about, is for people in other countries.
Yeah, sure...
I think that all men, especially evil men, should be tried in a court of law and have the right to hear the charges that are brought against them. Charges must be brought, or we become a nation of slaves. Everyone should get a lawyer, get a trial, and then get the punishment that they deserve!
Our government is now arguing that it has the authority to imprison American citizens - indefinitely - without bringing charges, or giving them a chance to answer any charges. The person at issue is accused of plotting terrorism.
But - it could be the guy in the sporting club, or the person next door, or any of us.
Even Randy Weaver has a right to a trial! I never thought that I would see myself saying this, but all men have a right to answer their accuser.
We should not give up our right to habeus corpus, or right to a trial, or the right to defend ourselves in a court of law.
Once we do-
There goes the constitution down the drain!
But, I fear that our current government has no respect for the constitution or for personal liberty or freedom. The bill or rights has become a joke. The only freedom that anyone in Washington says that they care about, is for people in other countries.
Yeah, sure...
I think that all men, especially evil men, should be tried in a court of law and have the right to hear the charges that are brought against them. Charges must be brought, or we become a nation of slaves. Everyone should get a lawyer, get a trial, and then get the punishment that they deserve!
Our government is now arguing that it has the authority to imprison American citizens - indefinitely - without bringing charges, or giving them a chance to answer any charges. The person at issue is accused of plotting terrorism.
But - it could be the guy in the sporting club, or the person next door, or any of us.
Even Randy Weaver has a right to a trial! I never thought that I would see myself saying this, but all men have a right to answer their accuser.
We should not give up our right to habeus corpus, or right to a trial, or the right to defend ourselves in a court of law.
Once we do-
There goes the constitution down the drain!
Hollow- I can respect that you don't think Iraq a good decision and the War there has not gone as well as you'd have liked. I disagree- but those are legitimate views.
Arty- Do you think the Constitution has 'suddenly been thrown' away by this administration? Where have you been living? Things like the 'roving wiretap' have been in the works for a long time. Did you know under the Clinton Admin. the FBI went to Europe and asked the European Union to make all electronics 'bug friendly"? And they did. Did you know under a warped construction of a communications act the FBI mandated all cell phones in the US to have GPS locator in them? This was also under clinton and in anticipation of the roving wiretap.
My point is not bad dog, bad Clinton (though I think he's pretty bad) but that the trend for today's governments is more of this type of thing. All public places in England are under camera. (roads) It just goes on and on. ARe you aware of what Carnivore is?
In time of war civil rights have always been curtailed. That's just a fact. There may be onerous provision of the Patriot Act, but we will have to see how all of this shakes out. My dad is going to vote for Kerry and thinks I'm nuts. So be it. Kerry voted for the Patriot Act- and of course now says he's against the provisions of concern. What else is new?
But I really don't want to hack all this out- what's important is that governments are doing these errosions of liberrties under all parties. I'm still angry that some conservative judges on the Supreme Court decided you could go behind bars for a busted tail lamp.
I guess in some ways I'm like Yvsa.
munk
Arty- Do you think the Constitution has 'suddenly been thrown' away by this administration? Where have you been living? Things like the 'roving wiretap' have been in the works for a long time. Did you know under the Clinton Admin. the FBI went to Europe and asked the European Union to make all electronics 'bug friendly"? And they did. Did you know under a warped construction of a communications act the FBI mandated all cell phones in the US to have GPS locator in them? This was also under clinton and in anticipation of the roving wiretap.
My point is not bad dog, bad Clinton (though I think he's pretty bad) but that the trend for today's governments is more of this type of thing. All public places in England are under camera. (roads) It just goes on and on. ARe you aware of what Carnivore is?
In time of war civil rights have always been curtailed. That's just a fact. There may be onerous provision of the Patriot Act, but we will have to see how all of this shakes out. My dad is going to vote for Kerry and thinks I'm nuts. So be it. Kerry voted for the Patriot Act- and of course now says he's against the provisions of concern. What else is new?
But I really don't want to hack all this out- what's important is that governments are doing these errosions of liberrties under all parties. I'm still angry that some conservative judges on the Supreme Court decided you could go behind bars for a busted tail lamp.
I guess in some ways I'm like Yvsa.
munk
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munk said:
This is something that people dont' seem to realize. With the Dems it's gun control. With Republicans it's usually something with a pseudo moralistic motive but the result is the same.
If they can't curtail risky activities and track what we buy and what we do they can't guarantee that we'll all be good consumers
They want us in our little condo boxes watching cable TV and the going out only to shop. What's needed is a political party that allows the maximum individual liberty but at the same time protects the public health through fair trade, labor, and environmental laws. But as long as both parties money is coming from the same place that's not likely.
Dean scared the crap out of them. Not his war whoop, but the fact that 80% of the millions he raised came from people donating $200 or less. Now what is the "Korporate Kulture" going to do with a candidate like that? So that is why the corporate controlled media went pretty hard on him.
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Here! Here!hollowdweller said:
HD, I might have, notice I said, "might have" voted for Dean. I hadn't truly made up my mind about him nor had I heard enough from Dean on enough issues but a couple of my kids were very high on him. Enough so that I listened to them without tuning them out. I'd like to see someone honest enough to tell it like it is on the "War on Drugs" and promise and then uphold their promise to stop it and legalize and control and tax drugs instead of putting non violent offenders in prison.
The so called "War on Drugs" is nothing but Big Business and Big Government itself IMO.
I think they also oughta make it legal for gays to marry.
Hell it's not like they're gonna breed straights outta the gene pool.
Personally I'm for all the Freedom we can stand!!!! I think anyone oughta be allowed to own any kind of firearm they want to own up to and including cannon!
Punish them for any misbehavior with it instead of punishing the person for what they might do.
Enforce the gun laws already in place instead of making new ones. Let it be legal to openly or concealed carry a huge Bowie knife , or khukuri, or huge folder if a person wanted.
Give the same rights to everyone over 21! Stop putting parents in jail for spanking their kids.
The talk is about going back to the Bible. I don't care about that being tribalistic and a pagan by some people's standards but the Bible says, "Spare the rod and Spoil the child." I don't think kids need to be beat but the damn sure need to be made to mind!
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thank goodness, no....
Yvsa - you are the new Fontmaster...
kinda like Beastmaster on a keyboard....
:footinmou
Yvsa - you are the new Fontmaster...
kinda like Beastmaster on a keyboard....
:footinmou