O1 for beginners

H

Halbrust

Joined
Aug 8, 2015
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91
So I can get O1 cheaper than 1095 or 1075 (because I can get it without paying for shipping)
Having never worked anything other than mild steel... Is O1 ok for a rank novice?
 
I just started out as well, Im using 154cm. How are you going to grind the blade? With files or a grinder? Are you going to outsource the heat treatment? I think O1 will be fine, worst case it will take you a little longer..
 
I just started as well. My 3/32"x6x36 precision ground 0-1 will be arriving today hopefully. I'm not scared. It's a good starter steel that has forgiving heat treating properties. It's also just a really good all around blade steel from what I've researched. I'm likely going to make a machete first, then maybe a chef's knife but not decided. Been cutting machete blanks out of mild to get the profile I want...
 
I'll be using a friend's belt grinder for profile shaping, and to start the beveling. I'll probably use files to refine the bevels and will definitely be hand sanding to finish.
 
O1 is great steel, I use it a lot. It depends what you want to make but it can be very versatile.

Send out for heat treat or get a good setup and spend some time learning about heat treat... O1 hardens nicely with most medium speed oils but needs a good 20 minute soak (or more... I go 30) at around 1500 F to reach true potential.

Many say O1 is a good steel to start out with and I did myself... it is not easy to heat treat without a kiln though.

I'd try 1084 and Canola Oil to start if you want to do heat treat in house. Or maye something like A2 and just send it out to be hardened, it probably costs less even in the long run to send off and you get to know the RC hardness.
 
1084 seems like an awesome steel too. But again I can get the O1 cheaper.
When I look at buying one or two pieces, which is all I can afford, the shipping makes the less expensive steels more expensive.

As for heat treating. It really depends on how well I like the knife pre HT. If I think it looks professional I'll have it professionally heat treated If it looks amateur and won't make me cry if it warps or cracks I'll try and do it myself.
 
O1 works and machines just as easy as any other high carbon steel.

I've heard stories... but I've had good luck heat treating at home using fairly rudimentary methods. I use a weed burning torch to SLOWLY and evenly heat mine to non-magnetic over about a 10 minute period, go a couple shades of red hotter and then quench in warm canola oil. Temper twice @ 400 degrees for two hours per cycle. Out of a dozen or so blades I've made with it, I've only had one warp--think I ground the edge too thin--but I was able to straighten it out fairly easily with gloved hands before finishing the quench. All my O1 knives get used pretty heavily and hold an edge every bit as good as any 1070 or 1080 I've used... in fact, I think they hold an edge slightly better for hard use (cutting cardboard, batoning, etc).

Buy a piece and try it.
 
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....O-1 is a good starter steel that has forgiving heat treating properties. .....


Where did you read that? O-1 requires a fairly tight HT with close temperature control during a 10-15 minute soak.

Nothing wrong with O-1, but many other steels are better for those with limited HT ability.

"Cheaper" is a really bad word to apply to the most significant parts of making a knife - the steel choice and HT ability. So you save $1-2 per knife...what did you loose?
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
....O-1 is a good starter steel that has forgiving heat treating properties. .....


Where did you read that? O-1 requires a fairly tight HT with close temperature control during a 10-15 minute soak.

Nothing wrong with O-1, but many other steels are better for those with limited HT ability.
Click to expand...


From another thread

"
O-1 and the other eutectoid steels have a much slower cooling curve than most folks think. You have plenty of time to straighten any warp. Pull it out after a count of 5, straighten, and put back in the oil to cool down below 200F.

The TTT of eutectoid steels gives you lots of time:
1 second to clear the nose at 1000F,
5 seconds to get to 800F,
1 minute to get to 600F,
2+ minutes to reach 450F ( Ms)
1/2 hour before it stiffens too much to straighten safely (50% martensite)
You have several hours before it has to get to 200F(Mf)



>>>...."

So I guess I should say it has forgiving quenching properties. What about all the youtube vids of people doing simple style, (torch or diy propane forge or charcoal) O-1 heat treats? Lots of them out there are we being somewhat misled? Most of them I see there definitely isn't a 15-20 minute soak..
 
I'm pretty sure the nominal limit for O1 is .90 carbon, safely making it HYPEReutectoid. I certainly couldn't find any below that amount. Not sure how that got mentioned as eutectoid...
 
If being done professionally, O-1 is a great knife steel. If done with a HT oven, it is a very simple steel to HT. If done with a torch or non-controlled forge, it will likely not get all the benefits of the alloying. That is why I say it is not normally a steel for a beginner who plans on doing his own HT.




Matt,

The range is from .85 to 1.00% carbon, so depending on the supplier and batch, it ranges from eutectoid to hyper-eutectoid. When giving advice on steels when I don't know the source, I usually err on the low side. With the required soak at austenitization, the difference will not matter in HT results.

The quote was from a thread on straightening warp, and was referring to the cooling curve and straightening warp between 900F and 200F. It was not a HT thread. O-1 and the eutectoid steels all straighten easily in that of the CCC.
 
So what then would be the "easiest" steel to heat treat for those who don't have specific heat control and would be using torches or simple forges... 1084, 1095?
 
Any steel is a good "beginner steel" if you're getting it professionally heat treated. Sure there are some higher alloy steels that are a PITA to grind, but they just take more time/abrasives.
 
1084 is the eutectiod. It is the simplest to forge and to HT. The second recommendation is 5160, which is a hypo-eutectoid with 1% chromium. It forges and grinds easily, and HT is pretty basic. It is the steel that is often referred to as being "forgiving in HT". Others simple steels to HT are 1070, 1080.
 
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1084 is the highest threshold of eutectoid, Stacy. Not trying to spiral off of the topic, but ANYTHING beyond that isn't eutectoid.

As per the good ol' Engineering Network database:

Eutectoid Steel

Steel representing the eutectoid composition of the iron-carbon system, with about 0.80% to 0.83% carbon, the eutectoid temperature being about 1333 (degrees) F. Such steel in the annealed condition consists exclusively of pearlite. Steels with less than this quota of carbon are known as hypo-eutectoid and contain free ferrite in addition to the pearlite. When more carbon is present, the steel is known as hyper-eutectoid and contains free cementite. The presence of certain elements, such as nickel or chromium, lowers the eutedtoid carbon content.


Too add to this discussion directly, though, O1 can be a great steel to start with if you have control over heat. If you're doing this 'old-timey', where forges and magnets and checking temp by eye are involved, this will behave much like many steels will... Only trial and error and experience over a long time will provide you with consistent results. If you want to make knives, just be honest with yourself and your approach. If it's in you, it's got to come out, so make knives any way you can, and improve as you go.

Hope this helps.:)
 
"Too add to this discussion directly, though, O1 can be a great steel to start with if you have control over heat. If you're doing this 'old-timey', where forges and magnets and checking temp by eye are involved, this will behave much like many steels will... Only trial and error and experience over a long time will provide you with consistent results. If you want to make knives, just be honest with yourself and your approach. If it's in you, it's got to come out, so make knives any way you can, and improve as you go."


This is the comment to read and re read again....Just go out and make knives man. play, experiment, hack, wack, chop etc...Just make knives!! If your out fartin around and not paying the light bill with this, just go out and make knives!! Steel is cheap! if you ruin it, so what. Grab another piece and make another. Again, if you aint paying the bills with this then your time dont mean nothin, and it is better spent learning the craft than watching the idiot box anyway.
 
I use D2 primarily for my knives, but started with O1. I do all my "official" heat treating in a heat treating oven.
But...for various tools I will often just harden with a heating tip (rosebud) on my oxy-acetylene torch and quench in some high flash point quenching oil I got from a local heat treater.
I may have missed it in the conversation, or maybe it is already understood, but in judging the temperature by color you must have the room darkened.
You are probably already aware of that, so I apologize if I'm repeating something you already know.
I harden O1 at 1450 (dull cherry red or a little hotter in a dark room) and draw (temper) once at 400. I like O1 for a myriad of tools and for knives, and I think you will be pleased with it as you gain experience and identify your style of knife-making. What is so neat about this endeavor is that we could all start off with the same materials and all end up with differently crafted products. Neat stuff!
John
My two cents worth.
 
01 and 1095 should really get pro-level HT, or else you're leaving a lot on the table and might as well use... 1075/1080/1084 for "backyard" HT. They are all capable of making excellent blades. :thumbup:
 
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