Obama - any new laws

[Lawmandan]

This is my great fear. Pretty soon we will be like Britain, where no knives can be carried or owned. Disgusting.

Where do you get these ridiculous ideas from?



In the UK we can purchase and own almost any type of knife, other than automatics and balisongs. We can own automatics and balisongs purchased before the banning legislation. We can purchase and own double edged 'daggers and dirks' which are banned in some US jurisdictions.

We can legally carry any type or size of knife if we require it for work or have any other good reason to do so. We can carry a sub 3" slipjoint without any justification, anywhere in the UK.

Yes, we have legal restrictions in the UK, just as you do in most parts of the USA. But to suggest that we cannot own or carry knives is plain stupid.

Danzo

 

[Arkeld]

Where do you get these ridiculous ideas from?

From your media.

Also, what good is a knife if I can´t carry it?

Remember that neither self-defense nor everyday cutting tasks are valid reasons to carry a knife in the UK. So yeah, your legislation sucks, sorry, but it´s the truth.

And by the way, for those who are still not convince that the British government has gone completely mad, read this:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article3965033.ece

1984, here we come.

 

[TOM1960]

Where do you get these ridiculous ideas from?



In the UK we can purchase and own almost any type of knife, other than automatics and balisongs. We can own automatics and balisongs purchased before the banning legislation. We can purchase and own double edged 'daggers and dirks' which are banned in some US jurisdictions.

We can legally carry any type or size of knife if we require it for work or have any other good reason to do so. We can carry a sub 3" slipjoint without any justification, anywhere in the UK.

Yes, we have legal restrictions in the UK, just as you do in most parts of the USA. But to suggest that we cannot own or carry knives is plain stupid.

Danzo

Your "reasons" are ill-defined at best and grant law enforcement way too much discretion to decide whether or not you are carrying legally. Sure, one police officer might be having a wonderful day and let you off with a few words of caution, but another may decide to arrest you on the spot. Maybe he/she was having a bad day or maybe they were behind on their monthly quota of arrests but it is YOU who will have to bear the burden of an arrest record, at least one night in jail and a court appearance, as well as attorneys' fees ( I believe you folks refer to these slick twisters of modern law as barristers). Unless the law is clearly written, you are assuming the risk of arrest and imprisonment each time you drop a knife into your pocket. Please don't misunderstand me; I am not denigrating the UK. Many areas in the US have similar laws and we can expect even more in the future. NYC knife laws are particularly notorious in the way the courts interpret them.

 

[Lawmandan]

Oh, please chaps!

You get your information from our media? Tabloid stuff that's posted online? C'mon, get real folks.



If I got my information about Knife laws in the USA from all the comments on Bladeforums I'd be absolutely petrified of the NYPD, I'd be scared sh*tless of the LAPD, and I'd never, ever go under the Mason Dixon Line because they'll shoot me. And I'm not even remotely black.

Truth is that the media tells us all kinds of lies.

I'm an Admin of a British knife site, much like this one. We have almost 10,000 members. In over five years we have had two reported incidents where the Police have acted because of knife carry. In neither case did the incidents progress to the Prosecution bringing an action.

Self defence may not be a good reason for carrying a knife in the UK, but neither is it for almost all jurisdictions in the USA.

I'm aware of US knife law because I think it's important for all of us in the international community to understand each other. And I also studied at both Weslyan and U. Mass whilst gathering my assorted legal qualifications.


Danzo

 

[stabman]

Oh, please chaps!

Truth is that the media tells us all kinds of lies.

Amen on that.:thumbup:

 

[Lawmandan]

Remember that neither self-defense nor everyday cutting tasks are valid reasons to carry a knife in the UK

Are you really so stupid that you believe this to be true?



God forbid you should ever be allowed control of your own shoe laces, you'd strangle yourself in minutes.

Danzo

 

[Lawmandan]

I believe you folks refer to these slick twisters of modern law as barristers

As with pretty much everything else you have you have got off the back of a cereal packet, or from other fourteen year old posters on Bladeforums, you are wrong.



A barrister is the lawyer who acts as an advocate in the higher courts. A solicitor is the slick twister of modern law.

For goodness sake, if you want to try and be smug and clever at an international level at least do some background reading. Otherwise you just come across as shallow and stupid.

Danzo

 

[Watchful]

Lawmandan,

Feel free to object or correct or criticize...but please avoid ridicule.

 

[Lawmandan]

Lawmandan,

Feel free to object or correct or criticize...but please avoid ridicule.

A fair comment.

However I would also then request that people who are entirely ignorant of the workings of the legal system of a foreign country don't pronounce on that countries legal system.

All it does is foster the sort of ludicrous comments made in this thread by people who have haven't the faintest idea of what they are talking about.

Danzo

 

[stabman]

Lawmandan,

Feel free to object or correct or criticize...but please avoid ridicule.

I agree, but it is difficult to be civil when one's country is frequently the target of ridicule.
Not just Americans are patriotic, so it isn't surprising that people will get defensive when their country is attacked(which happens quite alot here at times).

 

[Lawmandan]

I agree, but it is difficult to be civil when one's country is frequently the target of ridicule..

Ridicule I can accept. Ridicule can be a valuable lesson that we learn from. If that ridicule comes from a position of knowledge and understanding about that which is ridiculed.

But ridicule based solely on ignorance is worthless and demeans everyone involved. It makes the stupid more stupid and the intelligent annoyed.

And with that I will bid you good folks sweet dreams, as it is long past bedtime now in the fair city of Nottingham.

Danzo

 

[cdf]

Hi there Lawman , we don' t see ya round these parts too often . I very much enjoy my time on British blades . In all fairness , and not in complete ignorance ( I lived in the UK for six years , I also study the legal section in BB ) , things do seem to be a wee bit pear shaped in the UK . I live in Canuckastan , which is a common law juristiction , with a lot in common with the UK . I also did a bit of LE time in my youth . I dont slag off your system , but I am concerned that British precedents might cross the pond - they are quotable absent a Canadian precedent on point .

Chris

 

[Arkeld]

Are you really so stupid that you believe this to be true?



God forbid you should ever be allowed control of your own shoe laces, you'd strangle yourself in minutes.

Danzo

What I believe is that you should be allowed to carry anything form a SAK to an AK47 (the rifle), so long as you don´t do anything stupid with it.

However, my understanding of the current laws in England is that if a copper stops and searches me on the street and finds, say my Griptillian (or any other locking folder), I will need to provide him with a reason for why I carry it. And saying "Well officer, you know, I have it on me to cut whatever needs cutting." is NOT sufficient reason.

Please correct me if I´m wrong, but that is the impression I get both from the media and the posts on forums.

 

[Lawmandan]

The issue would be what you mean by 'everyday cutting' and whether the officer accepts that. There are no absolute rules, it's down to the discretion of the officer involved and the interpretation of the law by the court, should event get that far.

Folks, I have absolutely no objection to criticism or even ridicule of UK knife law if it's based on a factual and accurate consideration of the law. Goodness knows I do it enough myself. Our system has gone too far down the road of proscription, I fully agree. However it's not exactly new. The law restricting the carry of knives was passed in 1988 and the inclusion of locking folders stems from case law in 1993!

But what gets me angry is when people on BF make uninformed comments along the lines of it being illegal to carry and own any knives at all in the UK. It simply isn't true and does no help whatsoever in trying to have a rational discussion of how knife laws are evolving in the US and elsewhere.

Danzo

 

[cdf]

Studying earlier blade related laws is interesting . The majority were poorly crafted , borderline unenforcable , and generally ineffective . Lets face they cant even prevent shanks in maximum security prisons . This is one area where the UK is quite similar to North America , British inmates are also heavily into shanking .

All these metal detectors they are setting up in tube and rail stations will come to naught when the scrotes learn about scrap pieces of Lexan .

Chris

 

[Lawmandan]

All these metal detectors they are setting up in tube and rail stations will come to naught when the scrotes learn about scrap pieces of Lexan .

Very true!

However the metal detectors are really little more than a publicity exercise. It's the authorities wanting to be seen to be doing something very high profile to garner media attention. The reality is somewhat different. One only has to look at a map of the London Underground (Subway) to see that it is so vast that to place metal detectors at all stations would be so incredibly expensive as to be unworkable.

The same is true of overland railway stations across the UK. I travel regularly by train between various UK cities and I have never once seen either a static or hand held metal detector being used.

On a different matter I would like to offer an apology to Arkeld for the way I addressed him initially. Arkeld, you clearly do know about the situation in the UK. I was offensive towards you, and that isn't how I try to do things normally. I'm sorry for being an idiot in my annoyance.

Danzo

 

[Anaxes]

They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.

Yes, and it's an important part of his policy's. As far as I'm aware, he would construe the AWB as helping prevent crime and murder.
Now, he must spend a little time on the issue of crime despite war and economics, and top off the pile will be all those murders...

And what will be done to try and stop those?... Gun control is definitely not on the bottom pile, neither is it a separate issue.
Take something which threatens Governments limitless power, and is so heavily embroiled in the crime question and you have a huge issue!.

 

[joe-bob]

"Gun Control" is not about guns: it's about power.

 

[Masteroffajitas]

I don't know, are these issues really his big concern right now?

 

[NeonLight]

I don't know, are these issues really his big concern right now?

I'm sure they aren't his biggest concerns, but I'm also pretty sure they guy is smart enough and capable enough to multi-task. Just because the economy is at the top of his to-do list, doesn't mean he can't work on enacting other legislation at the same time.