OBM, diktator, Oregon blade maker, origin blade maker... etc...

[Mecha]

Well one of the reasons all these grinder companies can not go after each other for their designs is because they were not the original ones to come up with them for the most part.

Stephen Bader has been making grinders for over 50 years and originated many design aspect in belt grinders including the "endless belt".

What was the original tooling arm-style grinder?

 

[Kelly Coffield]

I was reading this post with great interest. I recently had a pour experience with Diktator.

Yes.

Also Diktator is NOT the same company as OBM. OBM sells parts to Diktator.

Look up the trademark filing:
https://uspto.report/company/Obm-Engineering-Inc
They’re all filed under the parent company OBM Enginnering Inc. They may be different brands, but they’re the same company as far as I can see.

They're probably all different companies but owned by the same parent company. Reading through the thread, I find it ironic that a company that rips off the designs of other companies is so diligent about filing for protection their brands.

I've made a few knives but not a knife maker. I'm a life long machine designer and fabricator. I bought their Bandit kit to save time. They don't allow you to choose the carrier but promise to ship lowest cost in their shipping policy. They charged me $130 and they chose to ship it 3-day USPS priority on a $485 order. They arrived in 9-days. UPS ground would have been 1/2 that. They refused to provide any credit. It was obvious they had never tried to build their own kit into a working machine, at least since the changes they had made. The parts they sent didn't match the only instruction they had which was their videos. They sent 3-bearing wheels instead of 2-bearing pictured in their videos, wrong hardware, etc, etc, etc, and they sent me the wrong drive wheel than the one I selected with the order and refused to send a correct replacement until I had returned and they had received the wrong one they sent me. That is when I gave them the middle finger, bought the correct wheel from another supplier and fixed everything on my own.

I have a detailed build history. It will be a nice machine but no thanks to them. I 'd like to post a video and build thread. I can do the the video on my YouTube account and link it here. Im new here. Is there an appropriate forum here for a belt grinder build.

Best,
Kelly

 

[weo]

Is there an appropriate forum here for a belt grinder build.

I'd say 'shop talk' works

 

[Kelly Coffield]

I'd say 'shop talk' works

Thanks. I'll finish it up and post in the near future. I forgot to mention that during the correspondence with Diktator, they tried to justify their practices with "we've been in business 30 years", so given Diktator is new on the seen, it's clearly just a shadow entity for OBM. Besides, someone can be in business for any amount of time and still be a world class A-hole.

Given the discussion in this thread, and it's just speculation on my part, but all the name changes and separate entities smells of someone trying to partition and protect their assets from legal judgments. I could easily see the change from Oregon to Origin resulting from a cease and desist letter. If they feel they have exposure from copying designs or commandeering others IPR, just set up a sub-corp like Diktator that doesn't have any assets and processes orders.

I'm not a fan of companies that copy designs but if the designs aren't novel and protected, it's not illegal. The one thing to remember id imitators rarely compare well to the results achieved by the innovators. Many times when designs a copied/reverse engineered, important details are overlooked and I can assure you that is the case with the Bandit "kit".

Best,
Kelly

 

[Drew Riley]

Thanks for sharing your experience. IP theft discussions aside, it seems that your experience is with diktator/obm is becoming more of a common occurrence as of late. I've seen a number of people on various facebook groups complaining of poorly fitting or poorly machined parts, missing fasteners, etc...
It's a real shame.

I'd love to see your build videos. Feel free to start another thread and share the links and/or your channel name.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

In the real world, ethics aside, unless there is a patent or trademark infringement-it is entirely legal to copy a design.
I seriously doubt there was a patent on anything they copied. Trademark infringement is using someone's legally trademarked name.

 

[Drew Riley]

In the real world, ethics aside, unless there is a patent or trademark infringement-it is entirely legal to copy a design.
I seriously doubt there was a patent on anything they copied. Trademark infringement is using someone's legally trademarked name.

I don't question that it's perfectly legal. It's still a huge slap in the face to the small businesses that put the time, effort and money into developing their own unique design only to have somebody else start selling their designs out from under them.

Trademarks can apply to more than just names, though I don't think any portions of the designs in question were/are trademarked. I do know that Northridge has recently applied for patents (or possibly trademarks) on some of their latest product designs, and I'm suspecting that OBM's business practices are one of the primary motivations.

At any rate, people are free to do what they feel is right. I'm just passing along some info.

 

[DanF]

A lot of positive reviews out there for the OBM stuff.
Some of the posts against them here are so hate-filled, it sounds very personal, not just a random customer giving a review. Makes one wonder about the true motivation, and what is really behind the curtain. Spin it however you want, something stinks with them.

 

[Kelly Coffield]

I finished up the build. I'm going to use it a while before I tear down for paint. I built the table and miter gage and have a few more accessories to make. The table remounts for the horizontal position. I kind of went crazy with the positionable handles but all tool arm, D-plate, and table adjustments can be made quickly, without tools, while maintaining position. The VFD comes off with two screws and mounts on my mill and several other machines in the shop. It tracks nicely. I do a build thread somewhere after some use.

Best,
Kelly

 

[weo]

Looks well done, Kelly. Enjoy!

 

[Glenn Thibodeaux]

I finished up the build. I'm going to use it a while before I tear down for paint. I built the table and miter gage and have a few more accessories to make. The table remounts for the horizontal position. I kind of went crazy with the positionable handles but all tool arm, D-plate, and table adjustments can be made quickly, without tools, while maintaining position. The VFD comes off with two screws and mounts on my mill and several other machines in the shop. It tracks nicely. I do a build thread somewhere after some use.

Best,
Kelly

Is that build on the tubing 1/4"?

 

[NPT]

Every time I see this company (Dictator) mentioned, everyone's focusing about the copying designs thing. What I have NOT seen mentioned yet is if any one of the other companies has any sort of patents on any part/parts of this general design. If they don't, well, what do they expect? Basically, the one who makes it the best is going to win out.

Having said that, I have recently bought one of their Bandit grinders. I'm sure I'll be able to sort it out....eventually. I'm currently trying to get a phone call with them to sort out the pulley alignment issues with it. It appears that there is no way to align them without modifying it somehow. And that means machining. Honestly, they are so close, but blew it on the small details, and if you read their literature, they go to great lengths to say how they do it best.

I'll tell you right now, if you want a good result, you better have facilities/skills to drill, mill, tap, weld, grind, problem solve, re-engineer, and some sort of painting.

 

[Thom Moss]

you right there are no patents , it’s just when a small company like Northridge takes a lot of time and money to prototype and build a more economical grinder, then someone else makes a copy and produces it overseas it really screws them over. Your bandit is a copy of the Brian house Revolution grinder. Which is made of American steel and fully Laser cut in Florida , so 3 American businesses supported and only about $30 more expensive. But that is just me. All grinders I guess are a copy of the baldor 2x72 at heart.

I do have a Northridge and have talked to George a few times on the phone, his Customer service has been amazing these past 2 years. Would like to get a Housemade also someday…

 

[fitzo]

I think about the lack-of-patent copying that happened to Mike Kanter's articulating tool-arm worktable every time I go to a grinder site. Way of the world nowadays. Greed wins. Honor is in the ICU on life support.

 

[NPT]

Not sure I see the gripe. Patenting has a reason for being. If you can't afford to do it, it's a risk you take by developing and selling something. From what I've seen, there is PLENTY of opportunities to be had just by tweaking the designs available, and more importantly, by doing it better. As far as I was aware, Diktator's stuff is made in the US. As long as you're doing decent sized runs, having them cut at a local shop with a laser should be cost effective. If enough volume is involved, you get your own laser, make more money.

 

[Thom Moss]

Unfortunately a lot of small businesses can’t afford it so it is the price they pay. I know they are out of Oregon, and they advertise “a wide array of accessories made by us in the USA” and “USA based company” but think it was discussed before that the grinders/wheels etc were being made overseas. Kind of weird the wording “USA Based”. nothing wrong with that, many of my other tools (bandsaw, micrometers, tape measures etc are all made overseas, themselves are copies of someone else’s great idea)… I hope you get it dialed in and it works well for you. It’s a great price and looks like a good grinder.

 

[NPT]

I believe I will get it sorted, and I can tell you that there WILL be a YT review on it. As it stands now, it'll not be super flattering. That may change based on their customer service and response to my concerns, but I don't hold a lot of hope for that.

 

[Randydb]

I think about the lack-of-patent copying that happened to Mike Kanter's articulating tool-arm worktable every time I go to a grinder site. Way of the world nowadays. Greed wins. Honor is in the ICU on life support.

If you don't get the patent on your good idea (and sometimes even if you do) someone else is going to make money off it. Knew a guy in the late 70s who had about 4000 coin operated laundry machines in the LA area. Was having problems with people prying the coin boxes open on them. He designed a protective plate that incorporated the lock and took it to a small metal fabrication business and had the guy make 4000 plates for him. The metal fab guy patented the plate and sold it all over the USA. Became a multi millionaire. The laundry guy was really well off too so he seemed to see it more as humourous.

 

[fitzo]

Yes, you are correct there are those will make money off an idea if they can, theirs or not. Far too many of 'em, actually. Legal not necessarily being the same as right and wrong, of course. Ways of man...

 

[Randydb]

Yes, you are correct there are those will make money off an idea if they can, theirs or not. Far too many of 'em, actually. Legal not necessarily being the same as right and wrong, of course. Ways of man...

My wife tells me I can be wrong and still be an a**hole on a somewhat consistent basis and I haven't patented anything yet.